Indexing, market efficiency, and lead steers

In this episode, Michael Mauboussin welcomes Eddie Perkin, former Chief Investment Officer at Eaton Vance and Goldman Sachs Asset Management, to discuss the principles behind better investment decision-making. Eddie shares how his early experiences shaped his investment philosophy before examining quality value investing, behavioral biases, and the importance of process over outcomes. The conversation explores leadership, collaborative conflict, confirmation bias, portfolio construction, selling discipline, and how investment organizations can create environments that encourage independent thinking. Eddie also reflects on the future of investing, the opportunities created by technological change, and the books and ideas that continue to influence his thinking—and much more!

• Eddie Perkin's background and journey into investing (2:58)

• Early lessons in behavioral biases and groupthink (6:31)

• The "Mercedes with a scratch" approach to quality value investing (9:03)

• Investing across U.S., European, and emerging markets (10:54)

• Why great businesses should be identified before valuation screens (13:15)

• Developing variant perception through research and preparation (15:12)

• Leading investment teams through focus, accountability, and empowerment (17:58)

• The behavioral biases that damage investment organizations most (21:01)

• The Robinson Crusoe exercise for identifying long-term compounders (22:43)

• Outcome bias and lessons from NFL two-point conversion decisions (25:11)

• Combating confirmation bias with devil's advocates and AI (29:32)

• Improving investment sell decisions through process and discipline (32:20)

• Active management, indexing, and market efficiency (35:17)

• Time horizons, retail investors, and short-term market noise (37:31)

• Leading teams through organizational change during the financial crisis (39:22)

• Hiring for curiosity, independent thinking, and constructive conflict (41:37)

• Running effective investment meetings and encouraging dissent (44:10)

• Specialists versus generalists in investment research (46:56)

• Incentives that reinforce performance and collaboration (48:18)

• Advice for aspiring investment professionals and the role of AI (50:18)

• Why Eddie remains optimistic about the future of investing (53:06)

• Eddie's book and podcast recommendations (54:38)

• And much more!

• Eaton Vance

• Goldman Sachs Asset Management

• Morgan Stanley Investment Management

• Invesco

• Babson College

• Columbia Business School

• Berkshire Hathaway

• Bank of America

• Nike

• FactSet

• SpaceX

• Running Against the Herd: Battling Biases to Make Better Investment Decisions — Eddie Perkin

• The Courage to Be Disliked — Ichiro Kishimi & Fumitake Koga

• Quest for Value — G. Bennett Stewart III

• Robinson Crusoe — Daniel Defoe

• What Happens Next podcast — Larry Bernstein

Thanks for Listening!

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