The Fragility of Civilizations: From Rome to the Bronze Age Collapse

Today on Upstream, we’re sharing Erik Torenberg conversation with Samo Burja where they discuss the Bronze Age collapse, technological advancements in ancient civilizations, and the nuanced history of the Roman Empire, along with a detailed analysis of contemporary geopolitical dynamics, particularly focusing on the Russian-Ukrainian conflict and its implications for global power structures.

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🎙️Live Players

Samo Burja and Erik Torenberg provide analysis of the news and case studies of Live Players, as well as key institutions and technologies that make up the global power landscape.

Apple: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/live-players-with-samo-burja-and-erik-torenberg/id1718925188

Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/5fbMTkHBnom1JIBWYNVBK1?si=01ed191c74264f55

Youtube: https://www.youtube.com/@LivePlayerswithSamoBurja

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LINKS:

Bismarck Analysis: https://brief.bismarckanalysis.com/

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X / TWITTER:

@samoburja

@eriktorenberg

@turpentinemedia

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HIGHLIGHTS FROM THE EPISODE:

• The Bronze Age collapse demonstrates that advanced civilizations can experience technological backsliding, countering the idea that knowledge only accumulates.
• Despite technological advancement in some areas like Greek fire in the Byzantine Empire, the Bronze Age collapse shows entire civilizations and technologies can be lost.
• The Bronze Age collapse (around 1000 BC) is documented in both written sources (Hittite tablets) and archaeological evidence showing destruction layers across multiple regions.
• The Hittite Empire, once a major power rivaling Egypt, was completely forgotten until its rediscovery in the 19th century.
• During this collapse, entire civilizations vanished, metalworking was lost in some places, and Greece lost literacy for about 400 years.
• Even decentralized systems can be fragile, as demonstrated by how trade route disruptions led to bronze scarcity and eventual societal collapse.
• From 1991 to 2014, the world lived under US hegemony before Russia began expanding again with the annexation of Crimea.
• Samo predicts giant nations like the US and China will have strong interests but won't necessarily impose their systems on smaller countries.
• Europe's decline could be reversed if it adopted a more federal and flexible system similar to the Swiss Confederacy.
• Eastern European countries like Estonia, Poland, and Hungary present interesting possibilities for governance experiments.
• Regarding Russia-Ukraine, Samo predicts Russia will ultimately gain territory while Ukraine loses it, with Western support for Ukraine likely to weaken over time.
• On historical narratives, Samo suggests prehistory was much more violent than often portrayed by anthropologists in recent decades.
• Samo challenges academic narratives about colonization, arguing Spanish rule was an improvement over Aztec human sacrifice practices.
• North America likely had multiple rises and falls of civilization that remain undiscovered partly due to political motivations in archaeology.