What was Italy like during the period of Rome's rise to power? Dr. Kathryn Lomas, author of The Rise of Rome: From the Iron Age to the Punic Wars, joins me to discuss the fascinating history of Italy outside and inside the city of Rome.

Patrick's book is now available! Get The Verge: Reformation, Renaissance, and Forty Years that Shook the World in hardcopy, ebook, or audiobook (read by Patrick) here: https://bit.ly/PWverge. And check out Patrick's new podcast The Pursuit of Dadliness! It’s all about “Dad Culture,” and Patrick will interview some fascinating guests about everything from tall wooden ships to smoked meats to comfortable sneakers to history, sports, culture, and politics. https://bit.ly/PWtPoD

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