Yates: It was terrible what happened at Carthage. Two men were murdered brutally, violently for the most unjust reasons based on prejudice, hate, bigotry, intolerance. And yet for you and I, something beautiful also grew out of the terrible tragedy of Carthage. We go to Carthage as a spot of pilgrimage. It's a place of love and sacrifice and devotion. The world has a pretty good record of setting fire to the green trees. When good men die in the way Jesus and Joseph did, Martin Luther King died, Abraham Lincoln. They were all what John Taylor might call green trees. Mike: How important is Hiram to Joseph? You have to be included here in

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