The Power of Deep Listening and Empathy in Overcoming Division

What if your next disagreement could actually bring you closer to someone instead of driving you apart?

In this episode, we’re diving into Conflict Resilience: Negotiating Disagreement Without Giving Up or Giving In with co-authors Bob Bordone, a conflict resolution expert from Harvard, and Joe Salinas, a behavioral neurologist and founder of Isaac Health.

Together with Yael, they have a down-to-earth conversation about what it really takes to stay present in conflict and why that matters for your relationships and your brain. 

You’ll hear personal stories, surprising research, and powerful insights on why it’s so important to get comfortable with discomfort, listen with an open heart, and know when (and how) to engage in tough conversations.

Listen and Learn: 

• What happens when a conflict avoider and a conflict expert team up to explore how tension builds connection?
• Why do two people experience the same conflict so differently, and how does your brain shape that story?
• Is conflict really worse today, or have we just lost the resilience to stay in the heat and handle it?
• Why avoiding conflict rewires your brain to fear it and building resilience means facing the heat, slowly.
• How sharing real stories across deep divides can reshape how we see “the other” and actually spark true change.
• Can deeper listening to those we disagree with reshape our brains, our beliefs, and maybe even our world?
• Why listening grows from curiosity to open space for real connection
• Knowing when to engage or exit conflict starts with curiosity and protects both peace and power

Resources: 

• Conflict Resilience: Negotiating Disagreement Without Giving Up or Giving In: http://www.conflictresiliencebook.com
• Joel’s website: https://joelsalinasmd.com/
• Bob’s website: https://www.bobbordone.com/about-me#:~:text=My%20Story,served%20as%20the%20Thaddeus%20R
• Yael’s newsletter interview with the authors of You’re Not as Crazy as I Thought (But You’re Still Wrong)—on the topic of moving from “me versus you” to “us versus the problem”

Additional Books Referenced in the Episode 

• Doppelganger: A Trip into the Mirror World: https://bookshop.org/a/30734/9781250338143 
• The Undoing Project: A Friendship That Changed Our Minds: https://bookshop.org/a/30734/9780393354775
• Rising Out of Hatred: The Awakening of a Former White Nationalist: https://bookshop.org/a/30734/9780525434955
• The Klansman's Son: My Journey from White Nationalism to Antiracism: A Memoir: https://bookshop.org/a/30734/9781419764783
• You're Not as Crazy as I Thought (But You're Still Wrong): https://bookshop.org/a/30734/9781612344614

About Bob Bordone: 

Robert C. Bordone is a Senior Fellow at Harvard Law School, founder and former director of the Harvard Negotiation and Mediation Clinical Program, former Thaddeus R. Beal Clinical Professor of Law at Harvard Law School, and founder of The Cambridge Negotiation Institute. He is co-author of Designing Systems and Processes for Managing Disputes, and co-editor of The Handbook of Dispute Resolution. Bordone was ranked among 2025’s World’s Top 30 Negotiation Professionals by Global Gurus.

About Joel Salinas: 

Joel Salinas, M.D. is a behavioral neurologist, scientist, and Clinical Associate Professor of Neurology at the NYU Grossman School of Medicine, founder and Chief Medical Officer at Isaac Health, and former Harvard Medical School faculty. He is the author of Mirror Touch: A Memoir of Synesthesia and the Secret Life of the Brain.  

Related Episodes:

• 51. The Psychology of Political Division with Yael and Debbie
• 392. Outraged with Kurt Gray
• 397. The Mindful Path to Intimacy with James Còrdova
• 276. Assertive Communication Skills with Randy Paterson
• 371. Uniting Toward a Better Future with Diana McLain Smith

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