How Do You Deal With Defensive Discipleship?

"My five to six and my life were change my change me in ways that no other way could god have pulled out of me," he says. "I remember digging into the cross, on the crucifixion of jesus, his downward journey,. I always recommend people read john of the cross, this dark night of the soul." He also talks about dealing with leaders who feel like emotionally healthy discipleship is an indictment on modern evangelicalism.