There's so many things I mean and if nothing else it's a study in PR like you said before. The amount of rebrands as well that these people have done is not just even in how they look although that's a huge one. It must take so much fucking energy to be trying to stay relevant your whole life because it is your job but it's almost like kudos, she says. She adds: "No one wants to get up with a gumption anymore"