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Political scientist Shari Berman argues that in weak political systems, extremist parties can take over the government without needing to moderate. Monk: It's important to embrace good news when we see it because otherwise we only breed cynicism and despair. We'll have a few conversations on the podcast of overcoming months that will hopefully help us all puzzle through this together.

Susan Neiman is an American philosopher and writer. She is the Director of the Einstein Forum in Potsdam, Germany, and the author of Left is Not Woke.

In this week’s conversation, Yascha Mounk and Susan Neiman discuss how liberals can uphold their universal values while maintaining a politics of empathy and compassion; how the left’s tendency to discount the progress of the past inhibits progress for the future; and whether Germany can serve as a model for how America, and other nations, should deal with the dark aspects of their own history.

This transcript has been condensed and lightly edited for clarity.

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