How Health Catalyst Developed a Mock Up for a Product

I think OUX helps in that way because it's not you're not making the mock up directly you're like thinking about what the things are in the system. I was hanging out with Jonah Toli this weekend so Jonah Toli is the the UX guy on Udemy and we will be doing a course together which is exciting. He has he gave me a copy of his book called Think First and it's basically like what you just said it's like Think First and then design so we wrote a whole book on it but yeah they just can we put a little bit of a pause before we get into mock ups so that we actually think about what we're mocking upWhat are the things