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I think the perspective shift, like when i was trying to get people like richroll in the podcast, it was because nobody was listening. And i knew that is a strategy for growth. It's very useful and practical if you're able to get those big names. I would rather learn something about someone, hear their stories, be motivated by that, or feel related to it then go, cool, that was someone like, i didn't even think i would care about listening to, but i got a lot of value from that and enjoyed it. Ye. Like dack shepherd's show, armchair expert, for me, is great, because it's mostly dack's being an