i feel like this episode is turning into the horandand mutual appreciation society. I think that we can't wrap up the intro without also naming the fact that you are co founder of the understanding group, right? That's right, yes. And mister werman having been so essential to the founding of our company,. bob royt and i, when he, he was in the school of information and library studies a the same time that peter and lew were back in the day. His interest in it went all the way back to richard sowerman.