So your last thing, like, oh, my

perfectness is striving to get certain things and then you've got them and you're like, wait, I don't even want these.

Yeah, or just like nothing, when it comes to money or success or like having things like, what do you call like material sessions? I think a lot of people learn that lesson. You realize as you age, you're like, wait, this is like pretty meaningless. It didn't, I really thought my perfectionism was for a reason. And as I got older, I realized all it's doing is making life hell in the moment with the hope that the future will be better. And that's not a guarantee.

Also like it also why this podcast and the studies are interesting is realizing that when you read about perfectionism, it's all from a psychological standpoint of how bad it can be for people's lives. Yeah, I think maybe there was, I think for you, there was a point where like, I've known you for so long, I'd say the first seven or eight years of our relationship, you were not willing to admit that it could be a bad thing. Totally, I genuinely believed it wasn't. Yeah, and I think it was

like. Because it was part of my identity. Yeah, and part of like the things I'd achieved. I've been like, if I wasn't a perfectionist, I wouldn't have gotten like people being proud of me for those moments or people saying, wow, like he did really like, I think he did. He did so well, you know, you think like, oh my trait got me

to this point that I'm proud of. But I feel like maybe the one of the main things even before getting and realizing it was pointless was maybe starting to be like, even almost if you had read these studies earlier, it would have helped to be like, wait, it's not always a good thing. And that's what these studies are saying. Being a perfectionist isn't always a bad thing. I think a lot of the psychological studies are around it being damaging and leading to depression because I think a lot of people actually think it's a good thing. They're kind of like counteracting it. And a lot of those studies say, we're not here to say whether it's good or bad. It's about trying to figure out what part of it serves through your life well and what part of it serves it negatively. And I think it like is surprising how much of it can serve negative. I feel like for me, there was a moment where I think you were able to accept it was a bad thing, which took a long time. And once that happened, it felt like it was probably easier to be like, okay, now I have to deal with the repercussions of it.

Whereas before I didn't even, wasn't even willing to admit that there could be bad things. Totally. And like to be clear, like these traits are with me

probably for. Oh God, you still have. You

still have them. Now I can recognize in general, like I easily can recognize now it's not a point blank good thing. And in fact, I can recognize most of the times it's like actually destructive. But like when I am editing or when I am creating something, like those traits are nearly impossible for me to give up without even with you on the outside being like, it's done. It's done. It's not a matter what I say. Yeah, but those things do help as like little like boundary keepers. But yeah, there's so many psychological studies that link it to depression, anxiety, self-harm, eating disorders.

Yeah,

so it's a severe ultimately like judgment. And I realize over time, like I have severe judgment of myself. Like I don't know that I have, there's like self-oriented perfectionism and other ways.