The world of business has nicely co-opted the term ecosystem, although mostly the way it's used they have no understanding of what an actual ecosystem does or is. And so the commons is kind of the connective glue I think that would help us bridge and connect and and make all these things work together. We're trying to figure out how is deep linking different from Transclusion different from some other method of connecting things with each other. The camp is sort of in-ate part of what we're trying to do with this podcast series and the camps are a little bit on the edges of the field but not bound by them.