i was responding to one of william lane craig's debates that i watched with him and shelley cagan about, ah, on a naturalistic world view, everything is ultimately destined to destruction in the heat death of the universe. And so in kagan s is jewish aneslike this strikes me as an outrageous thing to suggest. Surely, it matters to the tortured victims whether they're being tortured. It doesn't require that this makes some cosmic difference to the eternal significance of the universe for it to matter whether a human being is tortured. But if there is a creator who made us all with certain design parimeters, than if there is a moral law that is offered to

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