As we near the end of our season of solidarity, the sisters are thrilled to go deep with Chinyere Tutashinda, co-founder of the BlackOUT Collective and current Executive Director at the Center for Third World Organizing Hub, and Rico Sisney, Director of Action Strategies and Programs at the Center for Third World Organizing Hub.

They discuss reform vs. revolution, taking America for granted, the dysfunction of the USA, direct actions that model concepts beyond nation-states, choosing right actions in troubling times, it's not either/or, being prefigurative in our actions, how much of a population needs to actively participate for there to be movement, regime change vs. systems change, how power is fundamentally held, keeping vulnerable communities safe while participating, risk tolerance, who's gonna water your plants if you're in jail, what makes a tactic legitimate, the biggest block to solidarity and the illusion of a clear, direct path to freedom.

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