Hoffman says our perceptions give us an experience of the world and he calls it a controlled hallucination. Anil Seth from the neuro neuroscientific point of view actually has a quote here somewhere if you have any interest in hearing the quote. He's essentially saying everything we experience as a perception, including our experience of time and space so we still don't really know what our experience of space represents out there in the world. And then when you talk to physicists about the different interpretations of quantum mechanics I mean where physics is seems to be headed across the board at this point is that space and time are emergent that they're not part of the fundamental fabric of reality.

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