Intro

Church bells rang out across the world on Monday to mark the death of Pope Francis at the age of 88.

Jason Horowitz, the Rome bureau chief at The New York Times, discusses the pope’s push to change the church, his bitter clashes with traditionalists, and what his papacy meant to the world’s 1.4 billion Catholics.

Guest: Jason Horowitz, the Rome bureau chief of The New York Times.

Background reading: 

• For Jason Horowitz, Pope Francis was always a surprise.
• Francis’ death silences a voice for the voiceless.

For more information on today’s episode, visit nytimes.com/thedaily. Transcripts of each episode will be made available by the next workday. 

Photo: Andrew Medichini/Associated Press

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