Sally Kohn: I was so excited to have you on the show because I never enjoyed being taught writing growing up. So when I read your book and it came across this thing in 2017, several short sentences about writing, it just really connected with me. We'll focus now primarily around writing, just to share a little bit of the backstory. It's based on my own transition out of academics because in the early 1980s, I was teaching 18th century literature and English literature at Fordham University. And I realized I didn't know how to write for a general public.

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