What Kind of Sense of Spanish Common Patriotism Exists to Day?

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You must accept also the fact that more than four years of democracy, its exceptional because the history of spain has been really bad. And right now we have reasons to be proud, real reasons. This union of europe is a great project. It's a really ambitious project. May be something unique in many senses in history. And it's the only way to preserve peace, prosperity and democracy. We are part of it. But we cannot be proud of these things if we are not conscious of our problems, which are real. You nit honesty and with bravery, but at the same time accepting all these problems that are real, that we still are suffering.

Javier Cercas is one of Spain’s most distinguished novelists and a columnist at El País. His books, like Soldiers of Salamis and The Anatomy of a Moment, explore the history of modern Spain and the role of historical memory in contemporary life.

In this week’s conversation, Javier Cercas and Yascha Mounk discuss Spain’s transition from dictatorship to democracy, the movement for Catalonian secession, and how countries should approach their often complicated pasts.

This transcript has been condensed and lightly edited for clarity.

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