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michael shrimmer is back with a guest from the world of conscious capitalism. John mackey has devoted his life to selling natural and organic foods. We talk about economics, capitalism, crony capitalism versus what he calls conscious capitalism. And then we branch out into cultural issues such as basic income, and income in equality. It's a great conversation but at the end it will be where we end it - which is where we start.

John Mackey says the treatment for the cancer of crony capitalism is conscious capitalism, grounded “in an ethical system based on value creation for all stakeholders,” which includes not just owners, but employees, customers, the community, the environment, and even competitors, activists, critics, unions, and the media. Mackey cites Google and Southwest Airlines as role models, and pharmaceutical companies and financial corporations as anti-role models. In a surprise pivot, Mackey lays the blame for the myth of the profit motive as the only measure of value at the feet of capitalists themselves. Mackey’s goal is to write a new narrative for capitalism that asks us to care about customers and human beings instead of data points on a spreadsheet.