And it's sort of related to this next question. You know, when you engage in change making, it can get hard. You might have to pivot, as you've just said, but also you're going to face cynics. You're going to fight the status quo in certain cases. How can you prepare? How can you respond? I think

the first thing is we've got to remember that resistance is rational. That as changemakers, we often fall in love with our idea and we want everyone else to agree with it. Maybe we tell people about our idea, the first couple people love it, then you tell the third person and they tell you why it won't work. That can be so deflating. I've felt that a bunch of times myself and I've seen that a tons of tons of times in my students and other people I've worked It's been really frustrating. So I think we first have to recognize something very real, just called the status quo bias. This is a classic work done by the behavioral economists, Sam Lucent and Zech Hauser. And they show that we tend as humans to overvalue what we already have. And that makes resistance to change, resistant to changing the status quo. And so I think we need to first expect that we'll get pushback. If we're going to lead any type of meaningful change, it's human nature to be skeptical or even resistant. And so don't let that first resistance make you give up. That's to be expected. But then how do we build on that? The consulting group, Nobel, that's N -O -B -L, did really fun work called the three types of people you meet while leading change. I'll talk about one specifically. So the three types, there's the champions, there's people that believe in your ideas, and they say, okay, delegate to them as quickly as possible, let them run with their ideas. Second, fence sitters. These are people who go either way. And they say, this is often a trap. We try to convince the fence sitters. But the truth is, they will come to our side if they see enough traction. But they need to see that action first. And then the third and most interesting are the cynics. And Nobel defines them in a really interesting way. They say that often, change cynics are just disappointed idealists. Disappointed idealists. I. For me, this was really a transformation. Before joining Berkeley, I was a social entrepreneur, and so we launched a website that helped change makers launch their projects into the world. And we're going up against big VC -backed companies, so teams that had, I don't know, 30, 40 engineers. Our engineering team were two of my buddies from college that were from, you know, 7pm to 11pm each night. I would get these emails from our users and I would be shocked at how upset they would be at features we were missing or bugs that we had. And you can imagine that my first response is to be super defensive, to write back and say, don't you understand we're going up against these huge companies that have full time coders, and we have, I don't know four hours of coding a night we can't possibly keep up like got to understand like give me a break. disappointed, or idealist, and reframed it and said, OK, it's actually pretty amazing that this random stranger that I've never met in Ottawa, Canada, believes so strongly in this change that I'm leading, that they spend an entire evening writing this two -page email about this feature they want to see on our site. They're not idealists, they're just disappointed. And so instead of responding with defensiveness, I thought, how could I see the idealism in them and bring them into the change? And so I might thank them for their feedback and say, hey, we'd love for you to beta test this once it comes out. And admittedly it would take us a while before we launched the feature. But before we did, we'd say, hey, here's the feature. When you test it out, see what you think. Now, not everyone, of course, but many of these early cynics became some of our greatest champions. And that's all because of changing the way I thought about cynics as squeaky wheels to slow everything down, the one I get in the way that are just stubborn to people that maybe believe in the change or want to believe in the change, but just need reason to do so.