Okay, but the book gives two examples. Wouldn't have an accountant and one of so, so, so the accountant named Brady, right, who is like very conscientious, and he brings up the fact that there's like accounting irregularities that go all the way up to the CEO. And everyone in the company is just outraged by this. And there, he's not being a team player, right? And he's doing this out of a sense of moral sensibility of like, he's a true accountant. And there's this, there's like the, the, you know, the book itself, I think doesn't take a judgment or tries to, the reader is inclined to be on the side of Brady. But, but it's like, one thing that's clear is that the experts within a, that are within a firm that are hired by the firm are supposed to play ball a bit, that is they're not supposed to totally be detached experts, they're supposed to have some of the skills so as to integrate with the management structure. And Brady perhaps insufficiently has those skills. And perhaps if he had more of them, it could have been like, he could have orchestrated his intervention better. And there's a similar thing about the, the, the other, the, the, the, by fixing the, oh, God, whatever, it's the crane or something. And,

and like it, it

seems to me that it's not quite true to say that these accountants are supposed to be like independent contractors who fully operate in accordance with the tools of their trade. And in our in no way susceptible to the pressures of management, they're supposed to be a little bit susceptible, but not too much. And so like, here's a thought that I was just having. What if we imagine experts and, and elites as two ideal points on a, on a spectrum where there is such a person as the peer expert, that is the peer expert who needs zero social skills, who does not need to integrate with other people or to position themselves in a hierarchy at all, that is the mathematician. Okay. So the, the abstract mathematician who does not want to create any social policies and he does, he doesn't care about anyone else. He just wants to do his math proofs. Just leave me alone. Right. So that guy is an expert. And the only thing he is beholding to is the standard of his field or something. And now at the other extreme, there's going to be like the pure elite person, which might be someone in politics, or something I actually don't know who should be that figure. Right. But in the real world, actually, most people have to live lives in which they are both embedded in hierarchies. And thus they're in charge of some people and other people are in charge of them. That's true of me, for example. And also there's some things that they know how to do. They have some expertise. And so people have to have both of these faculties, but nonetheless, you might, your, your particular job might emphasize the one more than the other. Yeah. We might say even if it does, even in Brady's job, a little bit more emphasizes his expertise. It could be the case that, you know, he fails a bit in respect of his integration into the hierarchy, because that's also part of his job.

So it sounds like you're now agreeing with feet, because that's what I was saying. That is, there's a continuum between relative expertise and eliteness. And every role falls on it in the middle on that continuum, based on the relative emphasis of these two extremes. And that's the fact about the world. Now, I think Jack, all the author of this book, Moro Mays, is that we've been referring to along the way here. He is pretending to present these things neutrally, but I think it's pretty obvious which way he wants the reader to go, and he successfully gets the reader to go that way. But he is basically critiquing or complaining literally that the actual mix of roles that say the account or the repair judgment people have is slanted too much toward the organizational considerations relative to the expert considerations. And that's his complaint about this world. We are tempted to agree with him the way he presents it, but I, in the purpose of this conversation, I don't want to presume that in general. I'm not trying to make a moral complaint here in this general analysis. I'm trying to understand the nature of the world and that there are these different roles and that they have different considerations and to try to see how that plays out.