Where are the dead? Exploring presence

Today we’re sharing something truly special: an intimate conversation Jonathan recorded with end-of-life counselor and death doula, Dr. Martha Jo Atkins. Many of you met her on the show before, but this episode—originally shared only with Jonathan’s Substack community on his practical spirituality page —goes even deeper. Martha Jo, who’s been with thousands of people as they have transitioned, witnessing what most of us never see or never talk about.

This conversation is not just about dying—it’s about understanding life. Martha describes the subtle patterns people exhibit when they’re nearing the end: asking the time over and over, feeling restless, talking about needing to “go,” searching for shoes or keys or maps even when they can’t physically walk. These behaviors aren’t random. They’re signals of a transition already underway. And once you hear her describe them, you realize we do the exact same things during major life transitions.

When we’re growing.

When we’re changing.

When something in us is shifting before we’re ready to say it out loud.

We can’t sleep.

We check the clock compulsively.

We feel unsettled in our bodies.

We imagine leaving relationships, jobs, or versions of ourselves without knowing why.

We call it anxiety—but Martha helps reveal it as a natural part of transformation. And that’s what makes this conversation so relatable. Martha and Jonathan talk about why so many of us feel anxious even when something might not be wrong. And how our bodies might send messages before our minds understand what’s happening. Martha and Jonathan explore what it actually means to tune your intuition.

Learning to notice what’s happening inside you.

Clearing the emotional noise that blocks clarity.

Understanding why your system reacts the way it does.

And reconnecting to the inner guidance most of us have spent years overriding or numbing out.

We also get into Martha’s personal journey—how her brother’s death opened her intuitive senses, the non-ordinary experiences she’s had but didn’t have language for at the time, and how she continues to feel connected to loved ones who have passed. And she shares concrete practices anyone can use to settle the nervous system, develop intuition, and navigate uncertainty with more calm and trust.

If you’re going through a transition, feeling overwhelmed, or just sensing that something inside you is shifting, this conversation will give you language, perspective, and support. And if you want more episodes like this—sometimes with surprise guests—you can find them on Jonathan’s Substack where this one originally aired. We hope you enjoy it, and we hope to see you over on Substack!

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