Artist and designer Debbie Millman has been fascinated by the power of branding for most of her life. And as the host of the Design Matters podcast (which was recently translated into a book, out next month) and chair of the School of Visual Arts’s Masters in Branding program, she constantly has branding on her mind. For Millman, part of the allure of logos, identities, and marketing stems from the exercise of clearly and confidently expressing a purpose and meaning—a challenge that she has concurrently grappled with on a personal level. The parallels between aims in her work and life are no coincidence: Millman’s professional projects are often her way of searching for answers to life’s deepest questions.

Millman has long considered how design can reveal people’s innermost desires. She has worked at several prominent New York City agencies, including Sterling Brands, for which she served as chief marketing officer and president of its design division for 20 years, and was part of teams that created identities for brands such as 7Up, Burger King, Tropicana, and Twizzlers. She even moonlighted as the first-ever creative director of the pioneering hip-hop radio station Hot 97. Over the years, her career has helped her recognize the importance of slowing down, and of trusting that she doesn’t have to approach everything—writing, teaching, special projects, love—as if it’s her last chance to experience it.

On this episode, Millman describes her quest to feel comfortable in her own skin, talking with Spencer about the benefits of being a good listener, branding and marketing as ways to manufacture meaning, and why she doesn’t want to peak until the very end of her life.

Show notes:

• Full transcript
• debbiemillman.com
• (03:50): Roxane Gay
• (06:34): Millman’s “Together Apart” poster for #CombatCovid
• (08:15): RAND Art + Data
• (11:58): Master’s in Branding program at the School of Visual Arts
• (13:19): Why Design Matters: Conversations with the World’s Most Creative People (HarperCollins)
• (13:19): Design Matters podcast
• (33:52): Look Both Ways (HOW Books)
• (50:09): Brand Thinking and Other Noble Pursuits (SkyHorse Publishing)
• (54:35): Millman’s 2019 TED Talk, “How Symbols and Brands Shape Humanity”
• (01:17:16): How to Think Like a Great Graphic Designer (Simon & Schuster)