On this episode, Marc talks to Amy Coddington, author of “How Hip Hop Became Hit Pop,” released on September 12, 2023. It’s a fascinating study of how hip-hop made its way into the musical mainstream through pop radio in the 80s and 90s. Coddington explores so many issues: what exactly is mainstream, what exactly is rap, how did those two things change each other, plus issues of backlash, economics, authenticity, and more.

As she writes, “This history is really a story about money, about how the business model of the radio industry affected rap’s relationship to the mainstream. And it’s a story about race, about how the racial prejudice central to radio’s business model influenced rap’s mainstream potential.”

We hope you enjoy Marc's conversation with Amy!