Why firefighting feels rewarding

My guest for Episode #539 of the Lean Blog Interviews Podcast is Darren Walsh, author of Making Lean and Continuous Improvement Work: A Leader’s Guide to Increasing Consistency and Getting Significantly More Done in Less Time.

Episode page with video, transcript, and more

Darren is the Director and Leadership Coach at Making Lean Work Ltd and holds a master’s degree from the Lean Enterprise Research Centre at Cardiff University. He brings more than 25 years of experience helping leaders transform organizations in automotive, aerospace, medical devices, energy, and healthcare.

In this episode, Darren and Mark explore why so many Lean and continuous improvement programs fail to sustain—and how leaders can build the right systems and habits to make improvement last. Darren explains the three common pitfalls he’s seen across industries: choosing the wrong improvement approach, relying on traditional “solution thinking,” and lacking consistent leadership routines.

Darren also introduces his DAMI model—Define, Achieve, Maintain, Improve—as a way for organizations to avoid “kaizening chaos” and instead create a stable foundation for improvement. He shares stories from across sectors, including healthcare examples where better standards and daily management led to faster care, higher throughput, and dramatically lower mortality rates.

Mark and Darren discuss the difference between problem-solving and firefighting, the danger of “shiny Lean” initiatives that don’t address core issues, and the leadership routines that keep everyone aligned and focused on the right problems. The conversation offers a grounded reminder that Lean isn’t about tools or jargon—it’s about building consistency, clarity, and capability throughout the organization.

“You can’t kaizen chaos. First, you have to define and stabilize the standard.”

“Most organizations say they want improvement—but they haven’t built the routines to sustain it.”

“If every team in your business is working on the right problem, that’s an incredibly powerful organization.”

“Firefighting feels heroic, but it hides the real causes and keeps us from solving them.”

Questions, Notes, and Highlights:

• What’s your Lean origin story? How did you first get introduced to Lean and continuous improvement?
• You’ve worked across industries—from electronics to oil and gas. How do you overcome the “we’re different” resistance when applying Lean in new settings?
• Why do some organizations still associate Lean with cost-cutting instead of learning and improvement?
• What led you to write Making Lean and Continuous Improvement Work? What problems were you seeing again and again?
• Can you explain the three common pitfalls you describe in the book?
• What is the DAMI model—Define, Achieve, Maintain, Improve—and how can leaders use it effectively?
• How can organizations build a strong foundation for improvement before jumping into tools like 5S or Kaizen?
• What are the essential leadership routines for sustaining Lean and consistency?
• Why do so many teams fall into firefighting mode, and how can leaders break that habit?
• How can visual management and daily management systems help teams focus on the right problems?
• How do you balance working on small employee-driven Kaizen improvements versus larger, strategic problems?
• You’ve said, “You can’t Kaizen chaos.” What does that mean in practice?
• What lessons from the healthcare case study—cutting waiting times by 88%—stand out most to you?
• How can leaders ensure alignment and help every team work on the right things?
• What’s next for your work and research? What will your next book focus on?

This podcast is part of the #LeanCommunicators network.