Design is often, strangely, one of those things that bootstrappers tend to think about either too early or too late. Today’s show offers the case for integrated brand design from the get go. And it doesn’t need to cost thousands of dollars.

The TMBA site recently got a fresh lick of paint with a new logo. This week Dan talks to its creator, Sharif El Komi, founder of Komi Studio. Sharif shares some of the mistakes he’s seen brands making when it comes to design, why he thinks the recent ‘Wise’ re-brand is a triumph, and how being daring can immediately give small business an edge on bigger competition:

‘It's a lot about risk as well. That's why branding is also a very strong weapon for the smaller guys to use. Because doing the crazy thing … with your logo, but also with your general brand, even non design stuff, like copywriting, all the kind of funnels into your brand, doing the crazy stuff and … doing the edgy, risky moves, the big guys aren't doing that in any industry because … it's really difficult for them to change anything about their logo, their colours, the voice of how they do any copywriting because if they do, they risk losing big.’