Speculative Time Travel and Modern-Day Figures

In this insightful episode, the presenters explore the fascinating psychology and economics behind OnlyFans, explaining how the platform outperformed traditional cam sites by inverting the typical sexual marketplace. They discuss a piece by Aella, delving into how the dynamics shifted, with women now aggressively marketing their content to men, who became the primary financial supporters. The episode covers the tipping culture, the rise of agencies, and the overall business model that led to OnlyFans' unprecedented success. They also touch on the personal and societal implications of these changes and venture into broader discussions on masculinity and online marketing strategies.

Malcolm Collins: [00:00:00] Hello, Simone. This is going to be an interesting episode. We're going to be talking about the psychology of OnlyFans and how it used psychology to beat the other sex apps online. And because it's a fascinating story. We'll be mostly reading a piece that Ayla wrote on this.

Oh, cool. For the show. She's been on episodes before. Really, really fascinating piece on how psychologically and economically OnlyFans outcompeted the traditional model of online streaming and how it created a marketplace in which the male and female roles were switched in which females. Generally when you're dating or something like that you know, females are the people who guard sexuality.

Like they gatekeepers of sex, gatekeepers of sex. There's fewer of them that want sex than men. Generally very few men are going to turn down sex. If women are going around asking them in a bar or something like that, which means that, you know, men need to reach out more. They need to [00:01:00] be more prolific in how they reach out and women will see them as creepy when they reach out.

Where OnlyFans flipped that, where women needed to start reaching out to men because men became the biggest source of money. Women were using their sexuality in this way. And so women needed to like aggressively cross post on Reddit and stuff like that. And then reach out to guys in a way that guys saw as creepy.

Speaker: So what's happening is we've

Malcolm Collins: created this inverted sexual marketplace, which is really fascinating.

Speaker: All

Malcolm Collins: right,

so here, she's talking about the older way that apps used to work. You get money through two methods, either live tips or the room typically witnessed by all the other members of chats, or you can get taken private. a one on one pay flat rate minute show. Different cam sites focused on varying points on the spectrum between these two methods, but everyone knew the serious money was in the live tipping.

Privates capped you at around 3 a minute, but tip based income could average up to 20 a minute. So this is really interesting. So the private [00:02:00] room wasn't what you wanted, what you wanted was to be in an environment where people were tipping, which I wouldn't have expected in this older model. So you had to, to word it differently for the audience, you had these like rooms where you would act for a large group of people and that group of people would attempt to tip you.

But individuals from that group could pay extra to get access to you. Individually, but the live room was seen as more profitable, which I think inverts what a lot of people would expect.

Speaker: But that's because Ayla discovered early on that you could play people off each other. It was so dynamic.

Malcolm Collins: Yeah. To keep going here.

She, she talks about this. The psychology behind high earners for live streaming went something like this. You, the aforementioned hot girl, have an established audience of regulars in your audience. Each man can see the other men talking to you and giving you money. The men are implicitly ranked by dominance, which is determined by how much attention you pay to them, which is in turn determined by how much money they give you.

This leads to whales, and soon, 80 percent of [00:03:00] your income is from one to two big players. These people are incentivized not just by making you happy, but by making you happy in front of all the other men. The system is competitive. To be a good cam girl, Take your biggest tippers and put their names and lights behind you so everyone else can see them.

Call them heroes, knights, grant official titles. Only the richest will survive. I signed up for OnlyFans in 2017 before Leo took over and I thought it sucked. I posted some cute videos or whatever, but nobody used it. The tips were negligible against the 10k months I was accustomed to. The problems were obvious to me.

It was impossible to have whales compete against each other. What were the incentives for big spending? Of course, I was wrong. Unable to see outside my local minima. Only fans ended up dominating, decimating the previous camming rural landscapes. Nowadays, camming audiences are a fraction of their previous highs and many of the girls who still cam use it explicitly to funnel into their OnlyFans. So [00:04:00] how did it succeed so hard? So first, fascinating that she sets up this world before OnlyFans. Where you made money by paying men against each other and even like putting their name up in big flashing lights and everything. Wow. What's interesting to me is this is clearly playing to a sexual subtype that doesn't include me or most men.

I would find it really gross. doing this. I mean, keep in mind, like, I'm a man. I don't want my wife out there, like, showing herself to tons of other men, right? Like, that's not awesome. So, even if I was the guy who was paying the most and getting the most public attention from this woman, I still know all the other men are seeing her and giving her money.

Speaker: Well, so you also would have no interest in going to a strip club, right? No, it's a disgusting idea. Why would I? It's a disgusting thing. Like, there's clearly, though, an audience of people who see Seem to enjoy that.

Malcolm Collins: Okay. [00:05:00] Okay. Hold on. I'm walking this back in my brain. Now. So the pre only fans sites were targeting the strip club audience, but yeah,

Speaker: yes, it's like an online strip club.

With more interesting dynamics. It's way more intellectual

Malcolm Collins: yet is targeting a new audience and in a new way. So I'm wondering, how do you think only fans want? You can see the problem that she has laid out here. How do you think only fans was able to succeed where these other sites weren't given the situation before the new CEO?

Speaker: I'm, I'm stumped. I'm not, I'll give you a

Malcolm Collins: hint before we go further and I'm going to see if you can break it.

Simone Collins: Do

Malcolm Collins: not think about what the audience wants. The audience isn't actually that important to this. They might have a slight preference for the new model, but it's not what drove the change.

Everything has to do with the cost of advertising.

Speaker: [00:06:00] Did it make really low payment thresholds? Was it about driving women more to them? And then the women would promote it? I really don't know. Well, we'll see.

Malcolm Collins: I'm not gonna, I'm not gonna give an answer because now the audience is hooked, maybe. So I will put two images on stage here where she is making little drawings.

I love Ayla's terrible drawings where she does like the big boobs and the, the outfit and everything. And so just her one drawing, I actually need to describe this drawing rather than send it to you because it'll be so fun for the podcast and people. She's saying this is the way camming works and it is a woman on stage in a throne and then three naked men with erect penises going like this.

On a, like, award stage, like, number one, number two, number three. Oh, God. Like, gold, silver, and bronze. And then all the other men watching them being awarded top, the top simp, and the woman on the throne. Oh my goodness, okay. What I would say works about this in my mind, is I can see how this [00:07:00] normalizes simping culture.

Simone Collins: Hmm.

Malcolm Collins: And I also think that this might be something that could get bread out of the population because if I just had and always had no interest in this, this could be like a genetic subtype of men that doesn't relate to all men

Speaker: and who will be perfectly satisfied to not have a permanent long term partner because they can just.

Goin Only fans?

Malcolm Collins: They are satisfied with being the most dominant or appreciated male in a group of males that all have sexual access to one woman. Or access to like, I think what's probably breaking here is whatever the thing is where a guy likes showing off a woman that he is proud of like being in a monogamous relationship with to other men, that might be the instinct that's breaking here.

Speaker: I don't know. I don't, I don't think it might just be, [00:08:00] I've been thinking a lot lately about how you can smell and taste certain things that I can't. And that we know that, for example, there are genes that, that have been demonstrated to show people can either taste or not taste certain types of bitterness.

For example, certain com compounds that can, for some people taste very bitter. And for other people they just don't. 'cause they don't have the gene for that. And part of me feels like there's just some kind of stimulus receptor or disgusted receptor. That is turned off in some people or turned on in some people that makes this genre either appealing or abhorrent.

And so this is,

Malcolm Collins: you're right. It's not an arousal receptor that keeps me from liking this. It's a disgust receptor. I feel disgust at these thoughts. And other people appear to not have this disgust system active.

Speaker: And because I, yeah, I mean, I, I think if you don't have a disgust response to this. It is a much, it is a much lower stakes, much more convenient [00:09:00] and readily available way to engage in sexual activity than dating or finding a partner and all that.

Malcolm Collins: Fascinating. I also wonder other guys, shout out in the comments if this is accurate. Is there, am I weird for just like not finding the idea of a strip club arousing at all? Like I have been in them before, like, you know, when guys were doing like their trips or whatever in Vegas. And the whole thing felt super gross.

Like, like, like not rousing, but actively disgusting. Like the smells were gross. The women looked low class. I, I feel like a risk. Ouch. No, no, no. This is another thing. I feel like revulsion at like this level of low class .

Speaker: I think my closest experience, I think I have a similar response. But all I can go on, bear with me here, is Disney character brunches.

Where you attempt to eat a meal in peace. Well, apparently not in peace in a Disney themed restaurant. While [00:10:00] characters in costume and in character walk up to you and mess with you and shove food in your face. And some people love that. That is exactly

Malcolm Collins: what it's like.

Speaker: Actually, I wonder if there's

Malcolm Collins: a correlation.

Okay, I hated those as a kid, too. I have never liked, like, on a Disney ship Like, you're assaulting me? Why are you Do not make eye contact with me. Do not make eye contact with me. Do not make eye contact. Do not hug me. Do not come near me. I wonder if there's a correlation. Is there anyone? Now, this would be an interesting experiment for the comments.

Yeah, if you

Speaker: like OnlyFans and or strip clubs, are you also kind of cool with, like, taking a photo with a character at a theme park?

Malcolm Collins: Yeah, are you also like into theme park characters? If you hate theme park characters, do you also hate strip clubs? This would be such a discovery. Like do these three things correlate?

Very interesting idea. Yeah, but I mean,

Speaker: basically Disney character branches are strip clubs for kids. They're sure they

Malcolm Collins: are. That's what they are. Okay. So then she well, we might find that they're not, but like, I'm

Speaker: 94 percent [00:11:00] sure of this, Malcolm. It's so strong within me, but whatever. Okay. So

Malcolm Collins: then she did a little thing of what only fans and how it works.

And it's a bunch of men in booths with like things on either side of them. So they can't see that all of the other men are looking at the woman. And then the woman is in front of them all.

Simone Collins: Okay.

Malcolm Collins: And she goes, OnlyFans maintains the dynamic that made camming so successful. Direct live connection with a girl, but manages to make it feel individualized.

Instead of having to pay a lot of money to rank against other men, you can pay a little money and enter a pussy paradise with not a single other man in sight. OnlyFans leads its design towards isolating the men from each other. If you're Oh, so they took away this drip cup element. And they made it the girlfriend experience element.

Speaker: Oh.

Malcolm Collins: If you're a horny dude, the existence of other horny dudes is a fleeting shadow. A ghost only hinted at implicitly through the like counts on photos or occasional subscriber count numbers for the rare girls who make it public. So girls don't even have to make their subscriber counts. Wow.

Speaker: Okay. So they [00:12:00] discovered the turnoff effect and were like, let's.

Fix that! This is unnecessary!

Malcolm Collins: Yeah, from the girl's perspective, OF is designed to make this easy. There's a bunch of settings for messages and filters of who gets those messages. So that a thousand brand new men may at once receive the blessed, Hey babe, you up? A virtue real girl gazing directly into their eyes.

Just him and her, horny together, forever. Maybe OnlyFans is more like, and then she shows the one girl cloned in front of all the stalls. This is likely why agencies have become such a strong force behind the most successful OnlyFans models. They offer a duplication service. The way agencies work is this.

You sign up for an agency and pledge some percentage of your O. F. income, and the agency takes over handling a lot of the trivial labor involved in copying and pasting the sense. of your personalized connection across the stable of men. I've never used an agency, but I was curious how they worked back in 2020 when I had a bunch of publicity about O.

F. Earnings. I started getting [00:13:00] pornally headhunted and ended up talking to a man who claimed to run the largest O. F. Agency at the time. I asked him a thousand questions about how it worked. He said he had rented out a cheap warehouse somewhere outside of New York and staffed it with a bunch of minimum wage workers.

These workers would log into their clients accounts and chat as them. The chatters got a quick sheet with a bunch of facts about the girls they were impersonating to make sure they were being consistent about basic life things like general personality slash tone, where the girls lived, etc. Their DMs. He says you have to set your monthly subscription price to 5. I didn't like this idea. I was at 19 and I didn't want to seem like I was devaluing myself.

Simone Collins: No,

Malcolm Collins: we have the data. Girls income steadily increase as you drop the subscription price up to about 5, but below that they decrease again.

He was running a very different business model than me. I saw a monthly subscription price as an important part of my income, but he viewed it as trivial. The real money was in the [00:14:00] DMs. the goal. The purpose of the subprice was to be low enough to get as many men as possible but high enough to filter out the men who were too stingy to spend anything on DMs.

You didn't want your minimum wage workers wasting valuable time trying to sell a guy who wasn't going to put out after all.

Speaker: Yeah.

Malcolm Collins: Yeah. I, This is just so fascinating. These different business models, even within the only fans environments. I couldn't see it at the time, but he had touched on the same principle that was causing cam girls to earn more through tips as opposed to flat minimum rate, building your business model around a monthly subscription results in a ceiling on how much each guy is willing to pay if your model.

Is custom built milking every guy with direct response connection. The sky's the limit I also love that. This is how andrew tate got his start is pretending to be girls online I often remark on this but like people don't realize like andrew tate isn't like I I I like We have the video on andrew tate where I was like, you know young horny men [00:15:00] Other men will be out there and say you know, I, I get you, I will do, you know, things to make you good.

Jordan Peterson will cry for you. Andrew Tate will get down on his hands and knees and pretend this because that's how he made his money. Ooh, yeah, I like that daddy.

Speaker: That's what he's a closer,

Just, give me a chance.

Alright, I'll trust you. But only if you... Will perform oral sex on me. What? Right here, right now.

You can't be serious. Oh, I am serious.

Okay, let's do it. Here we go. And, go.

You are [00:16:00] dedicated.

Speaker: but he knows what some types of men want. And yeah, I mean, I, that would make sense to me, you know, you would want.

You know, we've always talked about dick pics being the most feminist thing for a man to do because they're just sending to women what they want, which implies the assumption that they believe that men and women are the same. And that's so beautiful. Feminists. Yeah. So,

We're doing this without you! Now hold on, team. Gary has already proven to me that he is 100 percent committed to the team. He proved it last night by sucking my cock.

Alright. Come on, team, we gotta find that stage!

Malcolm Collins: Since then, agencies have only grown. Probably the vast majority of high earning OnlyFans accounts are being run by agencies, which take a substantial fraction of the money. The amount varies widely, but often a minimum of 50 percent on top of the 20 percent OnlyFans already takes. Oh my gosh. Wait, but if this is happening, [00:17:00] and it must be fairly well known, at least if you're into Oh, hold on.

It gets worse, given what you're saying here. You're gonna love this. Okay. I, I joked, my comment was the top comment under this, where I said, Ayla's world in this blog is just Ayla constantly expecting more from humanity and being disappointed. Agencies are more customizable, more sophisticated. One of the more full service agencies I talked to would do everything.

They'd fly a girl out to a fancy Airbnb for a few days, shoot a huge amount of content, and then send her back. They do all the chatting, splice up and organize her content, build her payment. structure, funnel in new subscribers, she takes 10 to 20 percent of the proceeds and never log into OnlyFans once.

Simone Collins: Whoa, okay. Okay,

Malcolm Collins: so drips. This is how they do it. Eventually, the commonly known dominant strategy became known as drips. You'll film an opening clip, typically 10 to 30 seconds, where you said something vague and indicating horniness. Then you'd film [00:18:00] clips in succession, showing a progression of you stripping, teasing, all the way down to masturbating, and then climax.

The goal was to get a set of videos that could be sent as though they were plausibly being filmed live. People wouldn't send out the first video en masse. A certain percentage of subscribers would respond and then you'd say sexy things and then send out a second video for a certain trivial price, typically 3 or so to unlock.

A certain percentage of those subscribers would pay to unlock the video, then you sext a bit with them. Then send out the next video in the series, usually a slightly increased price. Eventually, you work your way up to the final video, typically a climax, which could be 30 seconds in lengths and often sold for 20 to 30.

I asked a manager once if he typically had the girls film multiple drips at different times of day, because if you have light pouring through a window for a girl who supposedly lives in a place that on dark, it'd be a dead giveaway that it's not live. Yeah, this is so a [00:19:00] lot, just so earnest. and like data driven.

He said, no, it doesn't matter. The men basically never notice or care. Oh my god. What? What? So this

Simone Collins: Oh god. Okay.

Malcolm Collins: At one point, trying to understand agencies more, I created an account of a horny man, attached a credit card, and bought access to high earning girl I knew was run by chatters. Okay. Through a drip series.

I love Ayla. She's so dedicated, pretending to be a man, spending her money for the cause. I want to understand how does this work? And she's, this is why I love Ayla so much. She's just such a, a pure person. She cares about truth.

Simone Collins: She's the most wholesome person I think I've ever met. She cares about truth.

She's earnest. She's well intentioned. She's caring. She's yeah. She's 100

Malcolm Collins: percent honest about who she is, what she cares about, and she might be wrong about those things, but she is honest about them. If she

Simone Collins: learns otherwise, though, she'll change her, her view. She just cares about the truth. And [00:20:00] she also just is.

A very pure, kind person, doesn't mean anyone any harm. Yeah,

Malcolm Collins: yeah, she might look, her ideology might end up hurting people. And we'll do a separate episode on this. I want to talk about the EA community is basically a funnel into becoming a sex worker for women. Because I've met some people who this happened to and I want to talk about it because I think it is an

Simone Collins: episode.

Okay. But I don't think

Malcolm Collins: that Ayla intended any or ever thought of any negative consequences from her actions. And she did. Well, she's certainly

Simone Collins: not telling anyone else to live her life.

Malcolm Collins: Exactly. But other people see it as a model and then attempt to, but anyway, she

Simone Collins: makes it look good. Yeah.

Malcolm Collins: Being a man with a credit card on OnlyFans during a Drift Camp campaign. It was shockingly bad. She texted me something like, Hey baby, you horny? And I was like, yes? She said, let me show you what I'm doing. And then she sent me a video of her in what was clearly a well lit studio.

She was wearing stilettos and dressed in a skimpy Santa [00:21:00] outfit, with perfectly curled hair and heavy makeup. Lending down to show off her ass in a performative pose. No semblance of reality here. No semblance of spontaneity. No semblance. There was no way she just filmed that. It was insane, but it didn't matter.

Just hanging out in

Simone Collins: our Santa costume with

Malcolm Collins: my husband. I love that this bothers Ayla. The practicality of it is what bothers her. This doesn't make sense. Why are men believing

Simone Collins: this? I just love studio lighting. It's like my whole house. My whole

Malcolm Collins: house is I just happen to wear a Santa outfit today because I'm feeling

Simone Collins: It was laundry day.

I don't want it to hurt you.

Speaker 2: And the whole sexy baby thing isn't an act. I'm a very sexy baby. I can't help it if men are attracted to me. Like that homeless guy. He likes what he sees. Okay, that could be for me. It's not! It's for her.

Malcolm Collins: Know, I know. [00:22:00]

Simone Collins: That is wild, though. I can't believe it. I'm

Malcolm Collins: just a sexy baby! On that scene, okay. It took me a long time, I love Aileen, it took me a long time to come to terms with the fact that for most men, they don't care about reality when it comes to supposedly connective porn.

They aren't trafficking you for signs of genuine Enjoyment to them. Your personality is simply a vessel with which to certify that your breasts are genuine I know a girl who is typically very warm and direct made personal connections with men who sub to her She experimented by making a free page a type of of where you don't have to subscribe but instead charging higher money for access to individual stuff on the feed and On this, she hired a real trashy chatter, who would spam men non stop with stuff like, Hey BB, you all caps, my pussy is horny, XOXO, look at me wet [00:23:00] now.

And yeah, her income shot up. Oh no. The point is, the fact that men don't actually care about individuation, much really lends itself to the stability of a connection. A hundred guys will think the things a girl says in her drip video are, in fact, filmed live and directly uniquely for them, and be completely unable to notice that it's not.

That blazing daylight outside, despite being 10 p. m. that she never says in a video state,

Simone Collins: reduce IQ. Like, you know, some studies have found that when people work in a group above a certain size of people, certain number of people, their IQ collected. And being horny also drops IQ. So like part of this is just like they're they're they're not all there.

So these aren't necessarily uniquely stupid people. They're, they're coming.

Malcolm Collins: No, I think we forget how stupid the average person is. And I think that for whatever arousal pathway this is, that they're masturbating doesn't require [00:24:00] the a hundred percent belief that she's really doing it for them. Yeah. Or maybe they believe out of, I don't know, look, a lot of sites survive was like, look at these attractive girls in your areas.

And like any person was like a shred of IQ. There's old

Simone Collins: ads. Yeah. Yeah. Singles in your area.

Malcolm Collins: Okay. So she goes, you can duplicate an entire human with a low resolution. As long as she appears vaguely fertile, they will never notice.

Simone Collins: Oh my God.

Malcolm Collins: I love, I love a list. So disappointed. And she goes, I am making this point because you might naively think that they're dumb here.

She's talking about the people who run only fan. She had this whole section on like the whole thing about them ending porn was completely fake. It was done for to get stuff up. But she goes, To do this was their marketing strategy. But they're not dumb. And so she goes, what is OnlyFans marketing strategy?

This is how they say seated their marketing strategy was to do nothing. Sure. They have ads, but have you ever seen an OnlyFans ad by Only [00:25:00] fans in the wild. And here she points out, you will see only fans ads. Well, I guess other people do. I've never seen one, but she points out an only fans ad here. This for like a specific, I guess the like websites know me well enough to know that I wouldn't be interested in this, but they're by specific only fans models who are paying or model companies who are paying to advertise those models.

And that's how, you know,

Simone Collins: as a company, when your users. Do the advertising for you.

Malcolm Collins: Exactly. Before, OnlyFans websites themselves were responsible for providing traffic to their own creators. With MFC, and with every other campsite, the front page features a long scrolling list of models, splayed out for your browsing pleasure.

MFC was responsible for getting men onto the website, Typically via ads on porn sites, after which girls would compete against each other for capturing the attention of those mens, and competition was fierce, exclamation point. The algorithm on the front page prioritized income per hour of camming, such that if you were online, you had to [00:26:00] hustle or risk dropping in visibility and thus dropping even more in income.

There were leaderboards for income per month where you could see the girls ranked against each other by who managed to earn the most out of funneled men. This whole thing was intense and distracting. Everyone's effort was focused on competing inside of the system. As far as I know, I was the only girl who tried marketing outside of MSC and famously that's how she got a lot of people.

She learned how to market on Reddit and stuff before anyone else was marketing on Reddit with her famous gnomes post and stuff. Generating my own funnels on Reddit, but even then, I did this more as a side project, not as a main source of income. By contrast, OnlyFans internal discovery system is pitiful, mostly limited to a small suggestive system on the side.

So you really,

Simone Collins: well, that further incentivizes. It's OnlyFans. Clearly stating to their female, well, their provider users. Yeah, you have to advertise yourself.

Malcolm Collins: You have to [00:27:00] advertise and thus advertise the site outside. I

Simone Collins: never once heard

Malcolm Collins: of an OF girl rely on marketing strategy that involved internal OF discovery systems.

No, instead OF turns. All of its creators into their own ads. If you're a girl who signed up for OF major account, you might sit there and think now what? Nobody subscribes to your account. OF does not hand you any views by virtue of being on the platform. If you want a man to pay you, you have to go out there and find him.

You have to be the ad. I cannot overstate the degree to which this radically transformed the online landscape practically overnight. An explosion of OnlyFans ads. went off in every corner of the internet as girls migrated in mass to through their own naked photos in front of the faces of every man they could find.

Sexy subreddits I used to post nudes to was no issues. Suddenly started instituting rules against me and every other girl who would link to her O. F. Account in her bio. Instagram started banning accounts that linked to O. F. And then sometimes even accounts that linked [00:28:00] to Any other website, which then led to OF, even FetLife, famously and loudly pro sex work, ended up conceding by introducing the quote unquote hide sellers option on their front page to filter out any girls posting tatas for profit.

The sentiment towards online nude girls went from fond, neutral to outright hostile. As an aside, I do find this kind of amusing. Getting paid for sex places women in a traditionally masculine role. They become the pursuer, trying to extract something they want from the opposite gender, competing against themselves to be the most attractive to otherwise uninteresting Sorry, uninterested targets.

In a sense, this forced masculine areas of the internet into adopting defensive feminine norms as they banned any predatory quote unquote behavior and started socially deriding any sellers as being gross or embarrassing. But anyway, I, very similar to the way people treat men online in a [00:29:00] historic context, which then she says.

But anyway, I suspect that if OF put effort into internal discovery, this would likely destroy the motivation. Of a lot of its users from doing their own marketing. This is also likely why OF can get away with taking only 20 percent commissions as opposed to 50 to 80 percent they save a ton by not running ads, which is what other sites were paying.

Simone Collins: Yeah. They're just

Malcolm Collins: fascinating. Right. All these things won by not having a good internal discovery system. Something to point out elsewhere in the piece, which a lot of people get wrong is they think that OnlyFans is like a bunch of like internet entrepreneurs. She's like, no, these are like OG porn people from like the old days of like the creepiest of OG porn sites.

The most predatory of OG porn sites who now own the site. She's like, these guys know what they're doing. They were not about to ban porn on OnlyFans. This is not a site run by people who don't know what's up. They understand men. But I find the psychology of men who get off on this new form very interesting.

That they don't seem to care that these are real [00:30:00] women. But I mean, then is any man who's masturbating to porn? Do they care about real women? Do they care about like, I think we sort of knew that men didn't really care. It's how much is needed to maintain the illusion from the perspective of maximizing.

It's so

Simone Collins: token at this point that I feel like a leap to AI is once it becomes good enough, just going to be. Like, why not?

Malcolm Collins: Well, I bet most OnlyFans are already being done by A. I. Oh, yeah, for

Simone Collins: sure, but I mean, I'm also talking about fully non human personalities, too. Not just taking the photos of a woman, but just doing the full thing.

Malcolm Collins: Yeah.

Simone Collins: Generated.

Malcolm Collins: A hundred percent. We'll see. This is where we are, as a country, as a world,

. Agencies primarily handle sexing, but funneling new eyes in is also part of the stuff they profit from. I don't know much about this, but I get the impression from various calls that pre OF, big multi million follower Instagram accounts, typically meme accounts, would make money by [00:31:00] selling ads disguised as not ads.

There was no visible platform for this. The guys who did this would sell these manually in jealously guarded telegram chats. After OF, they pivoted to boobies, posting thirst traps described as casual memes. Along with the rest, some of these big instant accounts would switch to founding agencies or people from agencies somehow made their way in and they would make deals, quote, post my girl on your page and we pay 400.

I wanted to get into these groups and I tried, but it seems like there were no actual models allowed in these groups. And I couldn't find anyone to let me in. If someone was managing multiple girls, he'd often use these together. It was pretty common to see a source trap, sexy girl, go follow her page.

Find it was private with a message. I'll approve followers first, but you have to first follow other sexy model. You navigate to the other models page and she'd have the same message you went through all the way down to follow every model's page in order to get in presumably after being [00:32:00] approved by all of them.

Fascinating strategy. Sounds terrible though.

Simone Collins: You want my thing?

Malcolm Collins: Love you. Okay. I love you to death, Simone. We will create our own Did you know that like 20 percent of OnlyFans content, I think it was like 20 or 25 percent when I was looking, are actually created for, say, for work? Like, cooking stuff and stuff like that?

Simone Collins: Oh, I know! Yeah, like, Ayla said in some of her posts, I think, that like, her sister did stuff, or interviews her sister did stuff on OnlyFans, but just like, humor stuff, like, dressed in a banana costume, nothing Nothing explicit.

Malcolm Collins: So what should we do when only fans, what should we are? I just don't. I just do not.

And it's not a prudish, prudish thing. It's just like. It's prudish for me, kind of. I really hate. I do it.

Simone Collins: You're, you, I'm fine with you on OnlyFans. I, I can't look at myself in a mirror. [00:33:00] And tolerate what I see. So there's no way. I think you have to like, be cool.

Malcolm Collins: You are the least sexualized woman on the internet.

Look at how much you're hiding, like, any potential cleavage, any potential sexuality. I wonder if people, you're with a partner who people know you're married to, so you don't even, like, get, like, the Like, we don't have Simone simps. Like, it's weird. Well, I mean, I

Simone Collins: still think that we, you know, once we do merch, we'll just have to sell the Malcolm dildo.

Malcolm Collins: It'll be great. Here's the question. You used to get back in the day, right? You must have. When you, she has a direct marketing of the 45th highest traffic website, she'd have people write like fan fictions about her.

Simone Collins: Yeah. But I didn't realize at the time, probably because of autism that it had anything to do with the sexual interest.

And so I just auto responded, you know, like an AI chat bot responding to people. It's not thinking Oh, this person is attempting to no, it's just like [00:34:00] oh this person has sent a message of greeting I will send an equally friendly or equally.

Malcolm Collins: Well, you are you are post wall. You're you're good like eight years Oh 37 now.

So like I'm 37, but it's ball 29. I thought, well, yeah, I mean, look, the wall is, is, are you fertile? Like, are you breed up submissive and breedable? That's what guys want. Submissive and breedable. Okay. Hey, I've always felt like I'm

Simone Collins: 62 years old, so I will only feel comfortable in my body once I'm 62 years old.

I'm I'm trans old. And so I'm going to have dysmorphia until I'm finally, I,

Malcolm Collins: I, I think that submissive and breedable is such like a tight description of what it is that men are actually looking for when they say like, well, that's post fertility. 19

Simone Collins: to 21. And that's, that's kind of it actually.

Malcolm Collins: And somebody else wrote that you always see your own partner at the age that you fell in love with them at.[00:35:00]

And so I wonder if like, I'm delusional about how attractive you are. Maybe you're just not attractive at all. I see you at the age

Simone Collins: that you are now because you've never been hotter in my entire existence. You just get prettier every day. You get more chiseled a little bit more. I actually do, by the way, like I am not attractive in

Malcolm Collins: older stuff.

Simone Collins: I think I Well, biologically, I have aged, I am happier with who I am now, and so I look better now than I did when I was young and when you first met me. So I think you're also doing better. Plus, I think a huge portion of attractiveness is in the end someone's self confidence. So when I do finally hit age 62 and above, I will be even more attractive because I'll be like, ah, I'm finally in my body, like, and then I'll just look great because I'll be.

Feeling so great. Like I just was coming across new research. I don't want to

Malcolm Collins: have sex with a six year old. Who am I supposed to be having sex with when you're sixty thrown?

Simone Collins: Twenty three year olds. Obvious. Get with the program, [00:36:00] Malcolm. What does every other, like, post sixty year old man do? I don't know if they had sex.

No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. I'm pretty sure that any child that Elon Musk is having at this point is VIVF. Yeah, given his age, I mean, I also think he has probably, I mean, if he wants it, he can have an active sex life with whoever he wants, but I think he's having kids via IVF. So, but that doesn't matter because I have no idea who I

Malcolm Collins: look at the goblin mode.

He's gone on the government. Like there was a great breakdown of his tweets that showed like he's up 24 7. I bet this man has not had sex for months. He's just going. Yeah, I guess if

Simone Collins: you look at his tweet schedule, unless he's tweeting through sexual acts. He's not getting a lot. Yeah, but he's been he's saving the government.

Malcolm Collins: Okay, he's this completely dedicated to fixing the country right now But how many times do you get an opportunity to fix the largest global empire? Right before it collapses like imagine i'm mad. I actually want to go back in time Okay, the [00:37:00] triumvirate's about to happen. Caesar's about to come to power The empire has become corrupt the senators.

There's no way really forward to turn into an empire Out of nowhere, time traveling Elon Musk comes in and goes goblin mode, fixing all of their bureaucracy and corruption. Punches Tiberius in the

Simone Collins: throat. Five

Malcolm Collins: years and the Roman Republic lives another hundred years. Like, or 500 years even, who knows, you know?

Simone Collins: Yeah, I think the key would be to change the trajectory mid to late into Augustus Caesar's career. I think that while he's known at overseeing the height of it, I think he also

Malcolm Collins: Well, I mean, Keevan, Augustus Caesar is after they'd already translated to an imperial system. I'm saying, can you save the democracy?

Simone Collins: Do you want to save the democracy?

Malcolm Collins: Was the democracy working so well? Curtis Yarvin's beginning to influence you here. You're coming away with a bit of [00:38:00] a monarchist stance. I see why they didn't want him on stage at this conference.

Simone Collins: It's it's very addictive, what can you say? I'm

Malcolm Collins: just saying, Barron Trump seems like a cool guy from what I've seen so far.

Simone Collins: Honestly, yeah, I want, I want to subscribe to that YouTube channel. I want I want to hit the bell. I want to know what's going on there. What I'm seeing

Malcolm Collins: increasingly is conservatives saying they hope Trump runs again. I saw Asma Gold say this, that he wants to see Trump run again.

Simone Collins: Well, I think this has been a very good run for him.

Thanks largely to Trump. So I would, if I were him, be commercially. You know, it'd be fun. You know, you know how to really F with progressives? What? Because they'd be like, oh, illegally have JD Vance run and Trump as his VP. That would be so cute.

Yeah,

Malcolm Collins: J.

Simone Collins: D. Vance run with Barron Trump as his VP. That would

Malcolm Collins: be, I

Simone Collins: would be ready for that.

I'd be ready for that. I'd be ready for that. I'd be ready for that. Or they [00:39:00] like Trump at the end. Pardon Luigi Mangione. Oh my God, Oh my God, because that he's, he's going for something. The way he's styling himself in court clearly implies, look, this man's playing a

Malcolm Collins: longer game. He's not out. One who's keeping tick tock from being banned.

Imagine him. This is why he's soaring with, with young people, you know, he's doing he's, he's making some pretty, so wob moves here. Oh no, hold on. I don't think you can pardon Luigi Mangione because I think the crime is a state crime rather than a federal crime. But if it was a federal crime, pardon Luigi Mangione, make him your running mate.

Progressives would have a complete aneurysm and I would be here for it.

Simone Collins: All I'm saying is We need to keep updated on what he does next because no one grooms their eyebrows like that without having a big master

Malcolm Collins: plan. Oh wait, did you see his shoes with the, the, his like fancy shoes with the shackles on his feet?

Oh

Simone Collins: my god, I know now, I know you [00:40:00] just want to get like a good pair of leather loafers. With the

Malcolm Collins: only fans account, I swear. Oh my God. You want to know who'd be the biggest only fans? Cleanup is Luigi. Yeah. From jail. Oh my God. Over him. Oh, she's a murderer type. And he's like, There was like a whole category.

I think we did an episode on this or I might have found the entire jail.

Simone Collins: I mean, I, I heard that there's like maggots in their food. It's, it's not a very nice place. He could, he could literally pay the,

Malcolm Collins: the O. F. So, so, so a whole category of Luigi Mangione fan fiction has erupted literally within like six hours of it's like a really popular category apparently for girls, of course, like guys are, are, are reading this, a

Simone Collins: younger attractive activist.

You know, the last young activists we have have not really brought us and I'm talking both progressive and conservative, they've not been exactly [00:41:00] heartthrob material.

Malcolm Collins: You know, I was actually pointing out that there hasn't been a single urban monoculture rise to fame since Greta Thornburg. And she's not

Simone Collins: heartthrob material.

Malcolm Collins: She's not heartthrob. But even like AOC was before or at the same time as Greta Thornburg, you, you just have not had anybody in like the last, I'd say like eight years or something really be able to rise to fame by appealing to the urban monoculture, which is in part why Harry and Meghan bombed so bad.

But like. This culture has been dead for longer than I think the public realizes. Well, that's the great thing about Luke, is he

Simone Collins: appeals to both leftists and some rightists. He's, he's

Malcolm Collins: yeah,

Simone Collins: there for everyone. We don't condone violence.

Malcolm Collins: I don't condone violence unless it's done to the people of Hamas.

Oh, no, that's still going to get us in trouble. Damn it. That's still going to get us in trouble. I'm just saying, I'm just saying

Simone Collins: trouble tonight. Do you want Dan Dan noodles? Or if I have some left go to [00:42:00] John chicken and I still need to thaw out steak. I'm sorry. Or you can have pot stickers or you can have a little bit of a go to John chicken and pot stickers.

Malcolm Collins: Or potstickers. And potstickers.

Simone Collins: And potstickers. You want both.

Malcolm Collins: If you can, or I'll take, or I'll take the other one. I don't care. I don't care. Like any of the things you make are amazing, Simone. I'm thinking

Simone Collins: about doing dandan noodles and potstickers, because then I can give some noodles to the kids too.

They've been talking about it, like rolling up an epic noodle. And if I do that for them, they'd be really happy. So. Remember how Octavian just spreads them along the length of the large dining table and then rolls them into large wheels and then eats them with delight. Oh, hold on. I've

.

Malcolm Collins: If I was a girl, would I have an OnlyFans? Well, it depends on what age I was. Would I have one today? I mean, yes, if I thought enough people wanted it, and I could make a lot of money from it. This is the thing. You can make a lot of money on OnlyFans. Especially if I'm already You have to work really hard, though.

Speaker: You have to be on for hours, right?

Malcolm Collins: If I didn't have to, no, you just [00:43:00] have to be famous enough. If I didn't have to worry about it hurting my future marriage prospects like you didn't care, I'd be like, we're switching our genders here, right?

Speaker: Oh, yeah, no, we'd be switching our genders. I don't think OnlyFans is a really prosperous place for men.

I wonder how many happily married women there are on OnlyFans. We wouldn't know because it would be toxic for

Malcolm Collins: them. The ones who were like the, I don't know what you call it, parents owners of Peanut the Squirrel. They made most of their money through OnlyFans. And I remember when we were doing that story, it was like something like, Oh, well we make something like 90, 000 a month through OnlyFans.

And I heard that and I was like, okay. Like I'm, I'm like iffy on OnlyFans myself. And I heard that and I was like, I could definitely, if it was me and my wife, whatever, even if it's weird that's 90, 000, man. That

Speaker: is crazy. Oh my God.

Malcolm Collins: And so they made their fame through peanuts and they sent people to OnlyFans.

I think, are they? Oh, so [00:44:00] that's how they

Speaker: got the people on OnlyFans is people came for the squirrel and they stayed for the raunchy sex. Is that it? Maybe people into squirrels are also more likely to be open with themselves about their kinks and consuming. I think

Malcolm Collins: they said they didn't use the squirrel to ruin it, so I could be mis I just know that they had both.

They were famous online and OnlyFans stuff, and I think, you know, the online fame, yeah, cross, cross, cross promotes.

Speaker: And there was, there was

Malcolm Collins: actually a story that they had been sniped by another OnlyFans star who was jealous of them. Okay. I forgot. Peanuts killed

Speaker: the other the the rival OnlyFans star.

Yeah, rival on them.

Malcolm Collins: Yeah.

Speaker: Oh, that's bad. That's

Malcolm Collins: the rumor.

Okay, I'll get started here.