I was mostly familiar with it on the consumer side back then. So my first day at Kainan was March 23rd of the year 2000. And about two weeks later, we went into a nuclear winter for several more years. My first experience in venture was just seeing things either very quickly crash and burn or just experience a very slow death. I mean, that's, I'll put a positive spin on it now. It wasn't because you found the real real and you were like, this is it. Totally.

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