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The 2022 Holberg Debate on Ukraine, Russia, China and the West.

Holberg Prize Talks

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Putin and the Russians Viewed Ukraine as a Liberal Democracy

Putin has faced demonstrations in Russia that he fights with violence after he returned to power, and he's seen collared revolutions as a threat against the regime. Bill Burns, who is now the head of the CIA, wrote a famous memo to Condoleezza Rice, where he said, for the entire Russian elite, not just Putin, Ukraine in NATO is the brightest of red lines. And you might think from listening to Karl talk that there's disagreement among the Russian elites. I do not believe that's the case. So on that particular issue, which is the issue on the table this evening, there is unanimity. If Putin is overthrown, you're not going to get somebody

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