Even as the anti-abortion movement celebrates victories at the Supreme Court and in many states across the country, there is debate about where to go next.

A hard-edge faction is pursuing “abortion abolition,” a move to criminalize abortion from conception, targeting not only the providers but also the women who have the procedure.

Guest: Elizabeth Dias, a correspondent covering faith and politics for The New York Times.

Background reading: 

• Abortion “abolitionists” are looking to gain followers after the decision to overturn Roe, unsettling mainstream anti-abortion groups.

For more information on today’s episode, visit 

nytimes.com/thedaily

. Transcripts of each episode will be made available by the next workday.