Outro

Steve Hayes and Damon Linker debate whether Trump's demolition of the White House East Wing is another norm-busting outrage or just a gaudy renovation. They argue over visuals versus substance in anti-Trump outrage, Trump's manipulation of public opinion, and whether Congress's abdication of power is the true engine of American authoritarian drift. Then: could "Trump 2028" be both a joke and a trial balloon? And in Goat Grinders: the "harm-reduction community," the literal misuse of a certain word, and liberal tolerance of urban squalor.

Produced by Corey Wara

Production Coordinator Ashley Khan

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