I

love the way that some of these conversations involve discussions over tea, which is, which is, in my opinion, a fantastic way to discuss anything like this. But, but also Mushtaq, you remind me of that famous story, whether or not it's true. I'm not sure about the cleaner NASA in the 60s who has asked about what he's doing. I love the way that you're nodding here. You know exactly what I'm going to say. And he didn't reply that he was cleaning. He said that he was helping to put a man on the moon or a person on the moon, I should say. Tell me a little bit about collaboration and why you feel like collaboration with Alice Smith School is so important.

Well, we have been doing this, this work and talking, talking about it and it was really the leadership that has been shown by Sean and Alice Smith that enabled us to take this to the younger generation. So this is something that we have not done much in the in the in the past. And personally, I believe that, you know, we are in such a special moment in our history that my prediction in few years from today, parents will send their children to schools, maybe even to universities, primarily to learn about themselves and find an article at their purpose. And second early, to learn the skills and knowledge required to master a body of knowledge that could be mechanical engineering or accounting or something else. So, personally, I believe that purpose is an idea that its time has arrived. You know, Victor Hogo said, what's stronger than all the armies in the world is an idea that its time has arrived. So that's why when I met Sean and I knew that she would like to do something very different in the school, I felt very excited about that. And I told her many times that not only as a university, I'm personally committed to supporting that journey that she's taking the school on. And I think to prove that this work can be done at multiple ages. I think this is a very powerful thing. You see, interestingly, when we introduced this work at the university level, there are some people who said, oh, this is too late. The students have been sort of shaped or formed by their education system. They are here to acquire knowledge to be the best engineers and accountants and so on. They could be. While I know that when Sean is trying to do what he is doing now, at L.S.M.E., people say, is this too early? I think there's no right time for it. I think people need to reflect on who they are within the right context in the right way at multiple levels in their life. And I think that collaboration, when it shows that both a school and university can do it, I think we between us cover probably anywhere from six, five years old to probably 22, 23, which is an amazing spread. Now, the great thing that Sean is doing is she made this available to parents. And I myself facilitated a session for parents to find their, to articulate their purpose and write their impact statements and things like that. And they wrote us emails after this saying, this is amazing. Now I know why you are asking my child to do it. This is good. I want to do more of. And I think this is really revolutionary. I believe that we are showing the way. And I feel that this is a piece of work that people would sort of get in a sort of spontaneous instinctive manner. So people say purpose is good. Yes, this is good. No one would say that don't do that. But how to do it? I think that is, there is a big question. And I think one of the things that we are trying to prove is that through a well-structured process that will happen within a couple of hours, you will get very close to knowing who you are and what's your purpose. Because sometimes people say, which is true to a certain level, you will take a lifetime to fully recognize your purpose. But at times when you say this, it almost says, don't do anything about it. It will happen when it's the right time. I think we are challenging this and we are saying every moment is the right time. And you will find, you will be able to describe yourself and your purpose in a certain way. And you will continue working on it and you continue shaping it, understanding it more rather than you will, you need to wait until you reach a certain level of maturity or financial status or whatever before you do that. So I think that is why I believe this collaboration and partnership really is really important. I love

that really. So there's a message, a clear message there for everyone listening to this right now that it's people are never too old for anything like this. Equally people are never too young for anything like this. Yes. Sean, just tell us briefly a little bit about the community. I'd love to understand how the school is involving the local community in all of this.

The community really has started with our key stakeholders. So our governors, our parents, and obviously some of our key leaders, that will broaden out. It will likely broaden out through some of our avenues like our trustees. But that will be the next stage and that will go alongside the students. And I think what we're really wanting is for the students to drive that community engagement so that things are not coming top down in sideways. They're actually coming from the grassroots of the school. And of course, they're the reason for the school. They are our purpose, our collective purpose. So we're hoping that that will come from them and they'll have some ownership over how this develops. Because obviously for us, that's the key piece is that they get some agency in how this works once they've got their purpose statement, how they want to use it.

Sean, tell me a bit more about that. I mean, how do we actually translate that purpose into into real action then?

I think certainly there are different models out there. But when I've worked with the student leaders at our school, one of the things that's very clear is that once they have a basic framework for the tools we've given them, they're very clear that they want to drive projects that usually have real impact both locally and internationally, but also have some resonance for them as a generation that maybe we wouldn't spot or identify from from our purview. So one of the things I would say is I'm very clear that our students would know what that direction would look like. And I would see us again as enablers, if I can come back to that word, that we would be providing the conditions, the environment, and perhaps sometimes the resource or the safety of practicing that in a good environment, a safe environment, whether trial and error is welcomed, and they could see where their impact goes.

Are there any examples you can think of offhand that you can share with us?

Certainly they're not direct to the purpose work, but one of the key things within our student leaders at the moment is they're looking at how do they have impact for incoming students, and how does it look specific enough that it would reach everybody? Because at the moment, things can be quite one size fits all. What our students are really good at doing is creating bespoke experiences for each other. I'm really honing empathy, I'm really understanding how that might look, whether it's through technological means that maybe we haven't looked at, but they're very, very thoughtful and considered in that sense.

And it's great to understand where all of this came from in the first place. Great to understand as well where we are right now, but tell me a little bit about the future and where all of this is going to

be going. The future really, it's interesting, isn't it, how much to give away. I think really when I picture the future, it's very tangible, and I think I would want every child to, once it's right, and we know developmentally that they're the right age to engage in this purpose work, and we've tried very lightly and work with our, obviously our team, to our experts in each child development curve to do that. Once we feel very reassured that it's the right time for each child, we'd want to revisit this work annually, and we'd want each child to see that they're developing, and that they're having moments of strength in different areas of their life, and that their purpose will evolve, it will change, and that's natural and normal as part of their own development and people around them. And I suppose I picture really graduation looking quite different if graduation is not just based around a row of numbers and a transcript or an acceptance, but it's based around your own evolving purpose and the narrative of the individual being brought to life. I think you'd have some really compelling interviews and some advantages competitively as well, not just the holistic well-being of the child, but I think the business world and the tertiary world would be really interested in those children in a way that right now we're just not making possible. No,

I see that, that makes perfect sense.

And Mushtaq, how do you see the future, especially at Harriet Wat University? Yeah, before this, if you allow me, I wanted to just give you some examples of the work, because we're slightly ahead and maybe we can answer some of the questions that you've asked. So, at Harriet Wat, we run potentially one of the best in the world programs of actuarial science. We attract very, very smart kids to do this program, and when they come in, I usually ask them, why are you choosing actuarial science, which is a very challenging program at the same time? And often the answer would be, well, I really like math, and my mother said, you know, if you do this, you can make a lot of money being in actuary, which is a sort of an alright answer. But after the students go through the program, I'm going to read you a real impact statement of a real year one actuarial science program. It reads like this, I am a math lover. My purpose is to use my mastery format to reduce complexity for others when they needed the most. I am an actuary. So, this is an example of an impact statement, and I have shared this with the president of the Institute of Faculty of Actuaries who told me that this kid was able to express what actuaries do, maybe better than some of the fellows of the institute, because they really reach the heart of it. And I think it has a power to this statement, because it's not generic, it's very specific, yet it's very inspirational. Now, what we do, actually, now, that every, each one of our students in the first semester, they go through this process and they articulate their impact statements. In the second semester of the first year, we put them into groups, where they are people who have similar sense of purpose, would work on a project to raise funds for an NGO that is aligned with their purpose. So, we have students who have raised money for the Malaysian Federation for the Deaf, or the Turtle Hatchery in Quantan, and so on, and the students by the end of the semester, semester two, they have raised a specific amount of money, and they have touched a certain number of people, turtles, whatever, but they've touched life in a very positive way. Now, why we insist on getting them to do crowd funding, because it's a very specific way of showing impact. So, this is not just, it's an unquestionable way of showing impact, while also we are building entrepreneurial capabilities. And we think that notion of bringing purpose and meaning to having that very specific impact in an entrepreneurial way is really something that the world would be needing. Now, this work that we are leading on here started in Malaysia, at Harriet Wat University in Malaysia, and we are taking it to the other parts of the university, including our campus in Edinburgh, our campus in Dubai, and we have made a decision at our university executive last year that each and every one of our students throughout their model of study will be having that sense of purpose articulated, and they will be able to refer to the specific instances within their studies and within their life where they have brought this purpose into reality and mobilized it. Moshtak,

I love the example of the impact statement that you gave there. Have you got one yourself?

Absolutely, you know, we all lead by example, and mine is I am a storyteller, and my purpose is to inspire others to tell more empowering stories about themselves and about the world we live in. Now, you would recognize that the structure of the impact statement has the IAM statement, which we usually refer to as your superpower, and then your purpose statement, which is really, you know, why you think you are here on earth, and there's a last part which could change from time to time, which is really your current plans to mobilize that purpose into a positive impact on the world. I

love this. Immediately, I'm thinking about what my own impact statement would be, but clearly, I need a bit more time to think about that, so I'll put that to work for sure.

So Simon, sorry, I just want to say this, that it's better to work within the process, because often people will say, oh, I'll think about it myself, but I think going through the process will assure you of having a better sort of outcome, because the process has been worked on for quite some time. And if you would like to develop your impact statement, I'm very happy to support you through

that. That's very kind of your most, that is very kind. Thank you. There's so much to talk about here, and we could easily be here talking about this all day, but I'm keeping an eye on time. We're going to need to bring this podcast episode to a close in a moment, but Sean and Mschtak, I want to thank you both for being here. It's great talking to you both about this. And certainly I've learned a lot from this, and I'm sure that our listeners have as well. If anybody has any questions and they wanted to follow up with either of you, what would be the best way for them to get in touch with you or with somebody else?

Well, I would welcome people reaching out directly to me. I'm available on LinkedIn, and if you research my name, they can find my email as well. So I respond to people when they put purpose in the email title, I'll open it immediately. I'm very excited about this work.

Excellent. And Sean, for you. I'm

very easy to contact. So most of our community will know how to reach me by email. Otherwise, it would be my school portal and my contacts are on there, and there's a feedback form on our website that I always receive, so no problem. Happy to engage.

Excellent. Well, thank you both for that. And it sounds like to me, like that's a clear invitation for anyone else to share their thoughts or questions or even their experiences with you both. But in the meantime, thank you both for being here. It's been great talking to you both. Pleasure. Thank you. Thanks

Simon. It was great. Thank you, MysheTech. Thank you. So

there we are. That brings us to the end of this episode. If you have any questions at all, then please do get in touch with the school. But in the meantime, thank you for listening to this, and we'll see you next time. Bye for now.