But

that was the point of your book really in a way, you're saying hey come on you've got so much going for you, celebrate your freedoms, don't give up on your society, believe in it, be engaged, but it's not happening in the west very much yet. There is an exception. We'll talk about America in a

minute. There is an exception to that. Yeah,

where you've got a great disruptor who will do a lot of disrupting. Well, surrounded by other disruptors. Yes, right.

I saw this speech by J.D. Vance that he gave to the AI Summit. Did you see this, John? No. Oh, it's magnificent. And you know, the details of the AI is a whole different thing. But it was when he when I watched that speech, I don't really know much about Jetty Banser. It was just the first impression almost. I've never met him or anything like that. I just saw a guy who was rearticulating something that you've discussed so many times, but he did it very well, which is that our increasing risk aversion is the central problem. The fact that we are afraid of words, the fact that we are afraid of strong expressions of sentiment, the fact that we don't have convictions in public very much, the fact that we don't say actually our countries are great, our society is great, that we don't say tens of thousands of people are risking their lives to get here and yet the people who are here are saying oh this is the worst place in the world no that doesn't make sense right and the fact that we are fearful of all the different things when it comes to physical safety you know this is a funny example but was watching a guy who I watch play computer games it's a very sad thing to do I'm sure you don't spend a lot of time doing it but he has more followers than both you and I on YouTube and other platforms so he's more successful at least. But he was talking about the fact that when he was a young man I think he's about my age he won some kind of competition and the winner the prize that they got was the opportunity to smash up a CRT monitor with a hammer right and that was fun right and he said they would never let you do that now and I thought that's so true right because there's just glass flying everywhere it's unsafe whatever so on every and every on every single thing whether it's expressions or behavior or anything we've become very safetyist and he was talking about the fact that yes we of course should be concerned about AI but we have to look at this as something that also presents tremendous opportunities and that's what happens when people become obsessed with risk aversion they become blind to opportunity and become blind to possibility. And that's where we are, I think. That

seems particularly true, since you describe it that way of Britain today. It's as though somehow, and don't get me wrong, I don't want to be sounding overly critical, I'm concerned. I want to see Britain thrive because of its history, because out of that history what it has to contribute to the world, its understanding of how the world works, I think it's still needed at the table of nations, if you like, in a big way. You know, it's something you

always really understand, John. Sorry to interrupt. I'm very sorry. But I think it's a really worthwhile point because i visited australia last year um and that's one of the things that i i took away from it meeting people in australia the way you guys talk about britain is the way i wish we talked about britain elaborate well the you feel that it's the mothership right and you have a in the way that you have a reverence for your mother, you have a reverence for the mothership, the place from which you came, right? Culturally, ideologically, mentally, in some cases, physically, right? Whereas the people who live here don't have that veneration nearly as much. And I think we should. I think we've spent a very long time now being afraid to say something that we should say which is the accusation that we are the most intolerant or places that are defined by racism and slavery and all of this other stuff it's not just false it's the exact inversion of the truth It's the exact inversion of the truth. It's the exact opposite of the truth I debate these people all the time, right? I say to them whether it's you know TV or whatever and I said to look Even behind closed doors. I will say this to people you're a black woman or you're this or you're that? Where would you rather live than in Britain or Canada or America, or Australia, or New Zealand, like five countries? I'm sure I've forgotten some. But it's not many countries, and they're all Western countries, right? So if you would rather live somewhere else, name me, is it China, is it Russia, is it Japan? Where are these beautiful places full of tolerance and all of this? We are the best at the very thing that we are being accused of being terrible at. The same with slavery. Slavery existed in the entire world, and then the West ended it. Well, this country. This country specifically. Voluntarily. Voluntarily.

Without bloodshed. Well, a lot of pain for the slaves, but without the bloodshed of the Civil War. That doesn't mean that slavery is defendable. but what is,

that's not what you have to defend. The accusation should be, why were you the first empire to end slavery, if there's an accusation to be made, if there's an inquiry to be made. That's the question we should be asking. Why was this country and its ideas, and a place where this novel realization that slavery is wrong. Something that prior to that, basically all human beings treated as kind of like, you know, part of life, right? Like you keep your dog in a kennel, you keep people you've conquered in war in bondage. That's what everybody thought. So this country then comes up with the idea that actually that's wrong, and it is then this country and other countries so heavily influenced by it, in the Anglosphere in particular, that are the most accused. It doesn't make any sense. And we've got to say this right now, because this is the moment, for the reason that you alluded to, that there is a cultural revolution happening. And you either join it or you know which way the other path goes, right? The other path goes to stagnation, defeat, decline, etc.

Well, that's very important. And you and I are both speaking at ARC here in London. That's why we're here. We're saying decline is not inevitable.