The Sunday Times’ tech correspondent brings on Dr Phyllis Gardner, the Standord medical professor who came across Elizabeth Holmes before she started Theranos and then worked behind the scenes to expose her, to talk about her background at Stanford (4:00), and in industry (5:00), meeting a young Elizabeth Holmes (6:55), rejecting her first idea (8:10), using her “charm” to accumulate prominent men (10:30), how Gardner got drawn in to the group of Theranos doubters (12:45), meeting John Carreyrou, The Wall Street Journal reporter who uncovered the scandal (16:50), how Holmes was appointed to Harvard’s Medical Board of Fellows (17:40), feeling lonely as a Theranos sceptic (21:45), the whistleblowers (23:00), why “fake it till you make it” doesn’t work in medicine (24:30), hurting the cause of women in business (25:45), Theranos’ legal attack dog (28:10), Holmes’ new company (30:00), the human costs of the fraud (31:55), the employees who quit (35:45), and why more women did not speak (38:20).

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