Eric Liu: I think for me, and I've been meditating on and off for a long time, it changed for me when I did sort of a version of what you're describing. He says the whole thing transformed into an experience that was different when he just let it be exactly as it was. Liu: Do you think most people are going to toil in the field, no matter what you tell them? "I didn't even know how not to control my mind"

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