Nationalism Unpacked: Balancing Loyalty and Critique

Join us as we tackle a reporter’s concerns regarding nativism and its associations with religiosity, nationalism, and Nazism. We dive into the benefits and criticisms surrounding nationalism, exploring civic and ethnic nationalism, and discussing its cultural implications. From historical contexts to modern attitudes, this video offers an in-depth conversation about pride, patriotism, and the nuanced understanding of national identity within a global framework.

[00:00:00]

Malcolm Collins: Hello Simone. I am excited to be here with you today. Today we are going to be discussing a question that came from a reporter who was horrified that they went to Natal Con, and they go, well, you know.

This nativism stuff, you know, it seems okay. Like I agree with what you're saying there, but why is it all wrapped up with all of these horrible other ideas like, you know, religiosity and nationalism and all this other Nazi stuff from their perspective. And I was like, wait, actually, I was like, wait, what?

Like. Are, are you? Because you know, normally I might be like, well, you know, I support Tism. I don't support everything that everyone says. Who goes to like a prenatal convention? You're like, wait, what's wrong with religiosity and nationalism? Right? Like first religiosity. We will just take this aside, you know, I'm sorry that it's associated with better mental health, longer [00:01:00] life, you know, less stress, less anxiety.

Screw

Simone Collins: those people,

Malcolm Collins: screw those people. Just, we'll throw all that aside. Okay. Oh my goodness. But let's just talk about the concept of nationalism, because I was like, wait, I don't think there's anything really objectionable about nationalism. Like, I, I don't, what is. What is wrong with nationalism?

Like I understand for example, like Nazis were nationalists, but Nazis also were like animal level and Nazis were underwear

Simone Collins: and they also pooped and they also drove in. Cars was

Malcolm Collins: really, really big into dogs. He was really big into protecting dogs and protecting animals. And he was a vegetarian at times.

Like, is PETA Nazi? Like, yeah, no. Yeah. Like that wasn't what people disliked about Hitler. Yeah. That he, that he had pride in Germany and German history. Yeah. There, the, that is not the bad thing. It was. The genocide. That was a bad thing. It was the [00:02:00] war That was the bad thing. It was the ethnic cleansing that was the bad thing, right?

It wasn't the loving his country. That was the bad thing. Well, you

Simone Collins: humans should be capable of separating out actions. Well,

Malcolm Collins: and, and well, no, in America at this time period when we defeated the Nazis could be thought of as nothing other than nationalistic. This was a nationalistic effort. This is what individuals like Captain America represent.

They represent nationalism. Mm-hmm. And so I decided to, I was like, okay, well I, now I need to go into definitions to be like, maybe there's some part of the definition of nationalism that's really offensive and I should be thinking more about, right? Mm-hmm. So I go to Wikipedia and I look up the nationalism definition and it is, I.

Really bad. Like I, I could read the paragraph and it wouldn't get to a line that made sense until we, it's not like misleading, it's just gobbledygook. Okay. So then I clicked on civic nationalism 'cause I [00:03:00] was like, okay, well maybe this will get to the point. Okay.

And civic nationalism, other wine, Don is, democratic nationalism is a form of nationalism that adheres to traditional liberal values of freedom, tolerance, equality, and individual rights At.

And is not based on ethnonationalism. So I'm like, okay, cool. The foreign nationalism is not ethno because obviously like we're not ethnonationalist. Like no one no could argue that, right? No civic nationalists. Defend the value of national identity by saying that individuals need it as a partial shared aspect of their identity and upper identity in order to lead meaningful autonomous lives, and that democratic polities need a national identity to function properly.

That, that seems like an obvious truth. Do they argue that they don't? Do they argue that like a country can no anarchy, that's the only way things will ever work? No, I, I think that they genuinely believe that a country should value the needs of non-citizens [00:04:00] over the needs of citizens. Like that's genuinely what they're asking for here.

And a lot of progressives actually believe this. That's true. Yeah. Back to the whole. Progressives

Simone Collins: care about rocks problem. Right.

Malcolm Collins: Yeah. No, but when we talk about things I'm like, well, somebody was like, well, what about immigrants? Because I created like this state structure and this horrified guardian reporter was talking to me okay.

They, I found a leaked version of this was their undercover reporter about nation state I wanted to create. And I still love that they published that. Thank you, guardian. You are our best. Pr, you know, the Guardian is our personal PR team with their, their hate Andre against us. But I, I found a they, they, they came to me and they go, well, okay, so it doesn't look like people who don't contribute to the state really have a vote or a voice in this system.

Like, why would they migrate to your country if they don't have a voice? I was like. Oh, this isn't really for a country, for people who don't [00:05:00] contribute. Like they can stay where they are. Like yeah. We're not trying to get to them as they, we

Simone Collins: respect people who love those people and our, our state functions in a different way

Malcolm Collins: when I think America can be the same.

Right? Like we don't need people who are drains on this date. Yeah. Did o other states apparently will poison themselves with those populations.

Simone Collins: Yeah. Or I mean, to, to be more gentle with it. Like the people who value those people are welcome to pay for those people. Meaning that, like right now, for example one, our kids aren't paid for by the state.

Right? Like we pay for them because we value them. And if we didn't value them, we wouldn't have them and therefore we wouldn't pay for them. And I think that's kind of. That's a 'cause. I think there's this implication that like, oh, what are you gonna do euthanize, anyone who's not valuable? No. Like just we're not gonna pay for them.

Malcolm Collins: They're, yeah, we're not gonna pay for them. Yeah. It's not that we, yeah. It [00:06:00] reminds me of the USAID thing where like this, this AIDS program in Africa was shut down, called like prefab or something, and all these people came out and they're like, do you want like random Africans to die of aids? And I was like, no, you don't either.

And they're like, yeah, I wanna fight this. And I go. So you're, you're donating money to programs that are meant to help those people. Like Certainly, and the great thing is a

Simone Collins: lot of people have subsequently stepped

Malcolm Collins: up. And our funding programs. Some people, a very small minority of population. Yes. Certainly not the loudest people.

It's acting like you are killing Africans by shutting down these programs, has stepped into actually fund this or was funding anything like this beforehand. They, they wanted other people to pay for this stuff. They didn't want to handle it themselves. And this idea of, i, I am, I am less killing those people by shutting down a program so that money can now go to other things in the United States than you are as an individual who decides to do something indulgent rather than fund those programs.[00:07:00]

Simone Collins: Hmm. '

Malcolm Collins: cause that's something where, you know, 100% what that money was spent on a personal indulgence, like going out to eat or like, you know, having food in or you know, an orgy instead of. Putting the money into this that is your choice to let those people die. Whereas with the, the government and money, I freed up money to go to other places.

Like that's very, very different. Mm-hmm. And so I think the, the, the, there's that aspect to it, but can to continue is reading the definition here.

Simone Collins: Yeah.

Malcolm Collins: Liberal nationalism is used in the same sense as civic nationalism, but liberal. Ethnic nationalism also exists, and state nationalism is a branch of civic nationalism, but it also can be illiberal.

I don't understand what that matters.

Simone Collins: Well, I guess no, it matters because you, you pointed out a, a, an important facet of civic nationalism is freedom and like liberty, so. I, I guess that state nationalism is more coercive. Like you have to live in a certain way, maybe a little bit more like Soviet Russia, [00:08:00] where like this is how it's done here, you know?

Malcolm Collins: Yeah. So civic nationalism is a political identity built around shared citizenship was in the state. Thus, a civic nation defines itself not by culture, but by the political institutions and liberal. Principles, which its citizens pledged to uphold membership in the civic nation is open to every person by citizenship, regardless of culture or ethnicities.

Mm-hmm. Those who share these values are considered members of the nation. And in theory, a civic nation or state does not aim to promote one culture over the other. Like I love what, what is your problem with people having pride in their cultural history? Right. Like, and I look at this in this, well, I mean, you're

Simone Collins: okay to is, I mean, if unless you're white

Malcolm Collins: right

Simone Collins: then,

Malcolm Collins: then it's what you're not allowed to if you're white.

No. You're allowed to, no matter what you're allowed to, well, we would

Simone Collins: argue you should be, but. A lot of other people would argue you shouldn't be.

Malcolm Collins: Well, because they're, [00:09:00] they, their culture depends on getting you to hate your ancestors. 'cause that's how they break your connections to your ancestral traditions to convert you into the cult.

Yeah. Which is an

Simone Collins: emergent property. That wasn't like no one sat down and was like, how do I separate these people from their inherited No, it was just the

Malcolm Collins: iterations of the, the. The viral mimetic strain, which is the urban monoculture that adopted it's spread, better, adopted this policy ended up spreading at a faster rate.

Simone Collins: Yeah.

Malcolm Collins: And that's why they exist in such high numbers mm-hmm. That try to get people to hate their ancestry and traditions and try to make nationalism out to be this boogeyman. When saying, I love my country, I love America, and I'm proud to be an American. Yeah. Are not things, it, it, it, it's almost, I, I'd put it this way.

Imagine you told someone from a different country that they're not allowed to be a proud of their nation or their country. Like, would you not see how horrifying that is? You know, you go to some other country like Mexico and you go, you can't be proud to be a Mexican. Like, what are you doing?

Simone Collins: Yeah.

Like, ew,

Malcolm Collins: what?

Simone Collins: Like

Malcolm Collins: look, you, you look at all the terrible things. Mexico dinner, Mexicans

Simone Collins: are [00:10:00] horrible. Yeah. Imagine. Oh my gosh. Yeah. I can't even imagine like. What you like Peru. Peruvians are the word Brazil. What? Yeah. Like didn't

Malcolm Collins: Brazil have slaves? Yeah. Can you imagine? How can you possibly be proud to be a Brazilian?

You should hate Brazilians. Yeah. Yeah. And it's like, what? Oh, Peru. Didn't you like, have like conquistadors in your government who brutalized like native populations? Shouldn't you hate your Peruvian identity? Well, didn't, didn't

Simone Collins: your, didn't. Your indigenous populations practice child sacrifice. Oh my God.

Well, and, and it's so funny because I think the progressive practice, or norm when it comes to traveling abroad is, oh wow, you guys are so amazing. Your country's so enlightened. Like, everything's so much better here. Right? Like, anything's better than the United States. So there's almost reverse nationalism.

You know, the grass is always greener when it's not your own country. It's, it's not just an absence of pride in your own nation. It is, it is the presence of pride in, in anyone for almost not being you, even [00:11:00] if they have more dubious moral records.

Malcolm Collins: That is absolutely true. Yeah. Well, and I think we see this with China in progressives mm-hmm.

Where progressives are like, oh, China is so great, so amazing. It's like, no, China is like really evil. Like their recent track record, they're in, they're in the process of a genocide right now. Like, you know that, right? Like, it's not like just mid genocide or whatever. Yeah. They, they, they are genocide right now.

So yeah, I, I, I, I completely agree with what you're saying there, and I think it's really perverse and pretty evil as a position to take. It's not just like morally neutral or morally absent. It is a, it is a strict. Moral negative. And I think that all of this can be seen sort of through the lens of progressive hatred of Starship Troopers.

Hmm. Where you get in all of these progressive videos and all these progressive pieces. One of our best episodes, by the way, you should check it out if you [00:12:00] haven't checked it out why Starship Troopers is so evil. Why the bugs were right, right? Like why the bugs are the good guys and humans are the bad guys.

And they always point, they're like, well, humanity is fascist. And it's like, well, no, they're not really fascist and they have voting. You just have to make a sacrifice to vote. Like, yeah, you just have to earn it. That's not fascism. Yeah. And it's like, in what way are they fascists? And it's like, well, they're aesthetically fascist.

It's like, well, yeah, but I don't almost think wearing an outfit, like I, I would say there's a lot of things about fascist I don't like, but they were snappy dresses. Like I, very, yeah, there's,

Simone Collins: there's a reason why there has historically been this issue with Asian kids, like pe, people in Asia who don't know European history, just accidentally wearing, I.

The, the batty guy, costumes and uniforms because they look cool. Like their independent uninformed parties are like, this, [00:13:00] this, this, clothing,

Malcolm Collins: this gets it. Yeah. So, so, that's, that's not why, like, yeah. So why do you hate the country so much in this movie? Why do you, why do you hate what the global government, they're like, well, it's racist. Well, it's obviously not racist. Yeah. The, the president is sky marshaled to Hot Maru, who is a black woman from Africa, obviously not from like a white culture. They're like, well, well it's this is even in the movie, which is meant to like, make it look bad. It's sexist. It's like, well, no men and women shower together.

Like obviously it is less sexist than even our current society. There are seen as a no meaningful differences between men and women in this world. They even serve in the military and about equal rights in this world.

Simone Collins: Yeah.

Malcolm Collins: And so it's like, okay, okay, okay, okay. It's not sexist and it's not racist. What is wrong with it?

It's that they have pride in their country. Yeah. Which is a, the entire globe at this moment. It even takes out any potential problem that you would have with nationalism in the United States where one group is elevated above another [00:14:00] group. Because the group that matters in I the movie is everyone in the entire world against bugs.

Simone Collins: Yeah. Kissing on a good bug. It's a dead bug. It's a dead bug.

Malcolm Collins: Well, I mean, and when you, I mean, I sort of feel like that's what we're fighting these days. You know, when you look at this mimetic virus that removes people's ability to reason and turns them into like, foaming at the mouse, cultural imperialists who want to eradicate every culture that differs from theirs on earth.

You know, well, what can I call them other than like. Bug men. Right? And this is something we increasingly see, right? Like, I think that when they, it is not the conservatives who first drew the line between the modern progressives and the bug hive mine. Mm-hmm. It is progressives who drew this connection first.

They said, well, the bugs were the victims. You know, it's a false flag attack. It's like, well, we know it's not a [00:15:00] false flag attack because it hit the brig the Brigham Young the, the. Or was this ship called? Can't remember the big, the big ship. Roger Young. Roger Young, I think it was called when they were in deep space, so quite far from Earth.

So we know that the asteroid didn't come from anywhere close to earth because it'll be like, oh, well the timing doesn't make sense, but we know it didn't come from anywhere close to earth, so it couldn't have been a false flag attack. Mm-hmm. And then they're like, okay, well, you know, we encroached on bug territory and it's like, well, not really.

The event that started the war was the Mormon separatist who settled within bug se territory explicitly as mentioned on the news illegally. Mm-hmm. They, they broke the laws and. Went off and did something that they were not allowed to do. And the bugs blamed all humans for what the Mormons had done?

Simone Collins: Yeah, because they just thought it was one single unified invasive species that was out for them.

Malcolm Collins: Well, yeah. In, in, [00:16:00] in the same way that progressives can't understand why if we, in the conservative movement or in the prenatal movement, you know, we'll have some people in the prenatal movement who are like anti-gay or anti whatever, right?

Like, there some have some racist synthesis or something like that. And then they're like, well, that proves that you all are this thing. And it's like. No, it what? That makes no sense. But it's because they think like a bug. They think like the hive mind. Right. Well, and again, and

Simone Collins: there's this, this chosen inability to parse out and separate actions and choices and, and policies that these are not connected necessarily.

Malcolm Collins: Yeah. No, no, no. I, I mean, I, I completely agree. And I've just been very like recently disappointed in how reactionary the urban monoculture. I mean, of course it has to be, but to even the concept of nationalism.

Simone Collins: Hmm.

Malcolm Collins: Like I am pro-America and I am constantly pro-America throughout our [00:17:00] episodes. And we used to live in a world where that wasn't a weird thing to say, to be a German and say, I'm pro German and proud of being German, you know?

Mm-hmm. Or to be English, like the English have so much to be proud of. The English were as a country, they literally. As a government paid, like in the early days, not just to stop slavery, but to stop other countries slave ships, they had fleets that were dedicated to stopping other countries doing slavery.

Simone Collins: Yeah. And, and yet, yeah,

Malcolm Collins: I think there's

Simone Collins: a lot of shame.

Malcolm Collins: Is wild. No one did something like that. We talk about the case of that African nation where they had that movie made about them, like the woman queen or whatever. Oh. And we were like, actually they were super duper slaves and they made their money in slavery to understand how.

Like the UK versus Africa in terms of the amount of [00:18:00] national pride you might ascribe to a country. The woman who they like idolized this great woman peeing in Africa the UK had to blockade her ports to get her to stop selling slaves.

Simone Collins: I didn't know that. That's insane. The UK

Malcolm Collins: victimized her. Of course.

Yes. They

Simone Collins: economically disempowered This leader, disempowered

Malcolm Collins: this African woman leader, girl boss queen, because she was a slaver. I know, I know. This is something where you repeatedly see there's something to be proud of for most countries. If, if you go and look at your history, you're going to find things well

Simone Collins: and if you so deeply, ethically disagree with your country.

You should probably leave it like you shouldn't. Yeah, I, I completely agree with that. Tax revenue, you know, if you feel like they're the baddies, you really shouldn't be there. I mean, one, because maybe Canada will take you. Yeah, well a lot of countries will take you. I think New Zealand has pretty affordable purchasable [00:19:00] visa requirement.

Like it's, it's not, there are plenty of places. Yes. And. Getting Caribbean residency, for example. Not that hard. Yeah, pretty, pretty straightforward. Their government infrastructure is like, it, it's fairly efficient. So yeah, I, I think that's the other thing is if you're not nationalistic, why are you there?

And I, I can get, you know, a lot of people don't have money to just get up and move where they have family and people they have to take care of. And there are plenty of reasons why that's not really a practical answer. And it's not fair for me to say that. But then. Just what, what do you gain from butt hurting about it?

You know, try to work toward getting out, I guess.

Malcolm Collins: Yeah. Well, and this is actually an interesting point where you know, I. People always see it as a win for the political party's side when one of their states wants to like leave the union, when in reality it would be a win [00:20:00] for the opposite side. So for example, if California like broke off from the United States

Simone Collins: mm-hmm.

Malcolm Collins: Conservatives would have a lock on national elections basically forever going forward. Oh gosh.

Simone Collins: Yeah. Well,

Malcolm Collins: If Texas left the United States, Democrats would have a lock on national elections, basically forever going forwards. Good point. I think we need to have a Republican movement for California statehood.

Simone Collins: You guys, do you? Yeah. I mean, California, I don't, I'm, I'm pretty sure they're a net. Positive in terms of federal tax revenue that we, we get more from them being in the United States than they get. So we would take a hit without them. Revenue. Yeah. But considering that, you know, they have a lot of Congressional and senatorial seats and that a lot of their policies we would argue are financially unsustainable.

And more likely [00:21:00] to accelerate our progress toward demographic collapse and therefore civilization will collapse it. It's a. A loss worth cutting.

Malcolm Collins: I, and I think that the revenue that they generate right now would be very easy to bring back into the country if you cut them off.

Simone Collins: Oh, yeah.

Malcolm Collins: Yeah. So if you, for example, cut off California into its own country, it would very be quickly become incredibly socialists and incredibly costly to run companies in California.

Simone Collins: But the thing is, it already. It like it's very expensive. It already is, and they're to live and people at a huge rate, like their rate of retention is incredible though. And we, we even anecdotally know plenty of people who I. They're like, I can't quit you. You know, they keep ending up back in California somehow.

Oh no. I've seen, I dunno.

Malcolm Collins: I've seen, I've seen the opposite. Yeah. You know, I've talked as leaders in like the effective altruist movement and stuff like that, and they were like, it's really interesting San Francisco. 'cause they're like, I had a list of like everyone for like parties in stuff in San Francisco who's like, interesting and like an outta the box sinker.

Mm-hmm. In post covid, that list. His, his has dropped to like a fifth of what it [00:22:00] was pre covid. Interesting. They're like, it's just like there are not that many interesting people here anymore. Most of them have left.

Simone Collins: Huh. That's very interesting. I mean, 'cause we know other people who are like, yeah, I'd love to leave, but all my friends are here.

I don't know. No.

Malcolm Collins: The only place I've seen that is when they have like a very tight network of like nearby houses. Or like a, a multi hacker house or like a, I, I haven't seen that in, in scenarios where people have, for example, like families that aren't integrated with other families.

Simone Collins: Hmm. Yeah. I, yeah, I guess.

And, or they're just spending a sabbatical in, in one particular short term place like Light Haven. Yeah. So I guess, yeah, that makes sense. I mean, what, what would be your ideal approach toward nationalism going forward? Is just, 'cause I think where nationalism goes too far is when it becomes blind. I.

Like [00:23:00] probably where nationalism went wrong in Germany and World War II was just blind trust in the government and like, ah, like they can't do wrong. They couldn't possibly be doing what these rumors suggest in, you know that

Malcolm Collins: No, I'm sure they know what

Simone Collins: they're

Malcolm Collins: doing. We knew what the country was doing. I think that that's like historical revisionism to say that that.

Maybe the average person didn't, but a lot of the, like strongest nationalists did. And I don't think that that is the, the where national, I don't think that had anything to do with nationalism that had to do with antisemitism and, and homophobia and stuff like that, which are not intrinsic to nationalism.

Like you can be a nationalist without being against you know, diversity was in your country. I. That, that has nothing to do with nationalism or not nationalism. That's like a completely separate set of, of problems.

Simone Collins: So you don't think that nationalism if improperly addressed? See, I, what I think is ideal is nationalism.

That [00:24:00] involves leaning into civic involvement and understanding what it is that makes your country great and doing your part as a, as a citizen to participate in. Protecting those good things and fighting, corruption, fighting bloat fighting things that, that threaten those values. And what I think nationalism runs the risk of becoming is just team sports, standing culture where it's like, no, my country can't do wrong.

Meanwhile, a bunch of corrupt bureaucrats. Hiding behind that cloud of trust and pride. I

Malcolm Collins: disagree. I think a lot of countries have an extreme amount of nationalism and literally zero trust in their government. A great example of this would be like literally any of the

Simone Collins: the Balkans. The Balkans present a good example of strong nationalism and,

Malcolm Collins: and complete hatred or distrust of their government.

These are countries like. Her, her Gosia, Bulgaria, Croatia, Kosovo, Montenegro. But see, I don't,

Simone Collins: I don't know [00:25:00] if that's productive either, because if you love your country, but you think your government's totally corrupt and non-functional, you're not gonna try to lean into it and get civically involved and make it better.

You're gonna be like, ah, it's just a hate it. Yeah, I mean, I think

Malcolm Collins: that there, there are forms of nationalism that do not actively improve things, but I think that on the whole, you cannot have a healthy country without a great degree of nationalism. Yeah, that is not something that's just maintained at the family level, at the level of local celebrations and festivals at the level of your school system, at the level of like, at every,

Simone Collins: you know what, nationalism is analogous to body positivity.

There are toxic versions of it, like haze, where it's like, no, sweetie, you should be worried. This is not a good look. Whatever

Malcolm Collins: you're doing, you must always love your body. Right?

Simone Collins: Yeah, yeah. Whereas, but then like the, you know, the opposite of it. You know, if you're, if you are if you've body dysmorphia, you hate yourself, you're doing [00:26:00] you're practicing all these really unhealthy behaviors, however they may manifest, you don't have confidence, so you don't come across as likable.

You're not happy. Like that's really toxic. But it is equally toxic to just be like, no, no matter what, I'm gorgeous, I'm beautiful, I'm handsome, I'm whatever. So maybe that's kind of the, the way to look at it. It's, it is a balanced thing, but you really. The, the, the default isn't like, well, I'm neither nationalist nor not, I'm neither body positive nor not like, you should be proud of how you look and you should have things about you that you love and you should take good care of your body, just like you should be proud of your country and, and love certain things about your country and take care of your country.

Right. And that's kind of the Yeah. The way it should be that the, the, the de the healthy balance is not indifference. Mm-hmm. At least if you wanna be vitalistic and, and, and healthy, I mean, people No, no, I agree.

Malcolm Collins: I think that that's it. It's, it's, it's to love your country and what it can be in the future, [00:27:00] you know?

Simone Collins: Mm-hmm.

Malcolm Collins: Mm-hmm. For its historic improvement. But I think that a big part of nationalism is about not sweeping under the rug as the current education system does. You know, the way that they used to say in the nineties that like education system, like swept under the rug, all the US or UKs or whatever, atrocities.

Mm-hmm. Now the education system does the exact opposite. It sweeps under the rug all the reasons you should have pride in being an American. Mm-hmm. Or pride in being British, or pride in being German. Like the, the entire system is structured to hide this from the student at a way that is dishonest.

Simone Collins: Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. It is interesting how so much of my, at least public school education was, and here's how we screwed over Native Americans, and here's how we screwed over slaves, and here's how we screwed over immigrants, and here's how we grew the environment.

Malcolm Collins: My entire education system was in both English and history, so not in like one subject.

Mm. It was a cycle of native [00:28:00] Americans. Then like, like how Native Americans got screwed over, not like Native American culture. It didn't care about Native American culture. It was how did Native Americans get screwed over? It was slavery. It was Jim Crow laws, then back to Native Americans. They like basically never got to the Vietnam War.

They never got to, like, even stuff that may not make us look good, like they just. Clearly, like these are the only three parts of American history that matter, and we will take two hours of your day every day in childhood to constantly remind you of them.

Simone Collins: Yeah. Propaganda, anti nationalist propaganda paid for by the government.

Malcolm Collins: Well, yeah. That that was created by this mimetic disease.

Simone Collins: Hmm.

Malcolm Collins: And, and what's worse is they, the, the left seems to have learned nothing by that except definitionally. The left can't be wrong. Like when I point out like, well, do you not see that your policies hurt the most vulnerable populations? Do you not see that in Democrat controlled districts?

Blacks actually earn significantly less [00:29:00] than whites when compared to Republican controlled districts. Do you not care? They're like, no, I am the good guy because I'm the leftist. And it's like, well then why do all of your policies when I point out that Native Americans are going to go extincted in your future?

They have a A below one TFR. And I'm like, you claim to care about this group. Like why isn't this a problem to you? Mm-hmm. And they're like, well, I'm the good guy because I'm the leftist. And it's like, that's not an answer. Like they, they define themselves as the heroes.

Simone Collins: Yeah. Not a, not terribly logical, but yeah.

I mean, I, I'm not gonna, it's important not to sugarcoat things either. I. You know, when things go wrong, you, you learn from it. And I think that's, that's important and that, that comes from a place of pride. You know, when people, for example, if we're going back to body positivity and they're like, wow, yeah, I thought, you know, saturated fat was poisoned for a while, turns out I was wrong.

Now I've switched to a different diet and I, I know not to do that again. Like, I've learned from that nutritional fad. And I think similarly, we can still admit that there were [00:30:00] some policies that. At first were thought to be good and turned out that they didn't produce good results, and therefore we learned from them because we are proud of who we are and we are great and therefore we are smart and we learn as we go forward.

So I, again, like we're, I don't think we're arguing for completely forgetting all of our little oopsies, but yeah, certainly not. I think, yeah. The interesting thing is in all of that education about here are the horrible things we did to absolutely everyone. There was no like, and so here's what we should do going forward.

You know, here,

Malcolm Collins: no, the, here's what we should do going forward is we should be more progressive going forward. That was always to hear what we should do.

Simone Collins: No, no. It wasn't even that though, that we never got to that. At least in my schools, it was just. By the way, hate yourself, hate your country. Like feel bad in should feel bad.

In my school,

Malcolm Collins: it was definitely, you should be more progressive going forward. Forward.

Simone Collins: Interesting. Mm. And we didn't get that. We didn't get there.

Malcolm Collins: Well, you were in sf. [00:31:00] Maybe that's what you

Simone Collins: get from an elite private school education is they actually follow through a little better. Public school. Didn't, the money didn't go that far, I guess.

Who knows?

Malcolm Collins: I love you Simone. I love you too. What are we doing for dinner tonight?

Simone Collins: Tonight we're gonna do more of the basil. Burmese chicken.

Malcolm Collins: Oh, that was so good.

Simone Collins: Mm-hmm. Is it pineapple or We don't It was, it already came with pineapple, so. Oh, good. The

Malcolm Collins: pineapple's already in it, so it'll be twice.

But I'm

Simone Collins: gonna add some more of the peppers.

Malcolm Collins: You really know how to do your job.

Simone Collins: Drink it with milk.

Malcolm Collins: Add about half as much as you did last time. Okay. 'Cause that was really good. These are the Thai red peppers that cause me tummy problems.

Simone Collins: Yeah, they hurt you, but they hurt so good. They hurt

Malcolm Collins: so good.

Simone Collins: Yeah.

All right. I love you.

, I think down there. A jungle and it got bears. Bears. Well, we better be very careful than red Octavian. [00:32:00] Yeah.

This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit basedcamppodcast.substack.com