You

know, that is incredible to hear firsthand your origin story. And, you know, just want to go back to the forging of the signature. I mean, how invigorating was that just to go in and be like, I know everyone would understand. Everyone would actually tell me to do the opposite thing. But you were determined. You were set. You were like, no, I'm going to make this work. Yeah.

It's so weird because I want to say it was more invigorating than it was only because I'm just going to be honest. I was kind of a troublemaker. I didn't do good in school. I played hooky and I partied a lot. I just wanted to have a good time. Never took anything seriously. Um, but it was the first time, like I remember leaving my class, I was in business one-on and I asked a question to the professor if you know what businesses he has built. Cause he was, we were talking about starting up a business and he had never owned a business. He just went straight from college to running a class, which I, you know, to me at the moment, I was like, I can't, I can't listen to you. So I just got up and left and I was walking by this class and weeks prior, I was training in the gym with a knee brace. Cause I've had multiple knee surgeries. And I remember this guy saying something to me, like you're trying to give me advice. Cause I was wearing a knee brace, just got in surgery. And I was trying to figure out how to do leg extensions. And he's like, Hey, I can show you a better thing to do. I was like, no, you're good. Whatever. But I saw him in class and I ended up poking in his class and he had a baby on the projector and he was like drawing on this screen basically. And it was a baby in a quadruped position. They were going over a crawl with like a neutral spine and contralateral movement and like all this stuff. And I was just sucked in. I thought it was the coolest thing. And, uh, it was like that moment that it clicked for me. I was like, this world of fitness is way beyond what I realized, you know, and for years it was just training. And then eventually it became nutrition too. But, um, it was, that was the invigorating part for me. Like my first experience of wanting to learn and acquire knowledge. Because before that it was school subjects that I didn't care about, you know? And so that part was really invigorating. Forging the signature was like just another thing. I'm like, whatever, I don't care. I hate, hate to say that now that I'm a dad, but it's yeah. I think the cool thing now looking back is being able to tell people that. And so I can say, hey, like my friends made fun of me because I was trying to get into this. And, you know, dudes, they pick on each other. That's just how they are. And I was a chubby kid in the group. So they, you know, they were like, dude, what are you doing? You know, picking fun of me. Parents were saying no, like, that's not a good idea. You need a plan B. That's not going to work. And with all the doubt around me still just, you know, stubbornly pushing forward because in my heart, I knew that there was something on this path that I just, I couldn't shake this feeling and I just trusted it. And that was, I mean, over a decade ago now, you know, it's what 13, 14 years ago. And so it's cool now. Cause I can talk to those same people and they're like, Holy shit. Like, thank God we didn't talk you out of that completely. Or you didn't listen when we tried to. Right. Um, and I hope that's encouraging for people. I

think it's gotta be, I mean, because I am sure listeners can, you know, relate to that in some form or fashion that, you know, when you do go with your gut, uh, when you trust that, like, okay, you know, this might not be, you know, the most rational, this might be something that understandably is, you know, not a safe bet. But I think there's something to be said about being able to listen to your gut, listen to your heart, whatever you want to categorize it as. And then, you know, to be able to look back, I mean, like over a decade, now in the position you're in, you know, being a husband, being a father, it's like being, you know, a successful business owner. It's like looking back and knowing like this would look completely differently if I had not made that decision then. Like, you know, and, you know, I think this is a really good segue into the, I would say, the crux of what I believe or I see to be what your business is based off of. And that is that aspect of not opting for the path of least resistance. And I want you to talk about that. I want you to just walk me through what was really that, you know, that first motivator that really led you on that path, because obviously you were very determined. You were very, you know, it seemed like even like with the knee brace, it's like you're willing to adapt and to figure out what you need to figure out, even if these are unknown unknowns. But when was it that you turned the page and you were like, this is going to require an intense amount of discomfort. And I'm actually going to be better for it by picking that again and again. You

know, I think it was actually when I, the first experience with this was when I realized I really wanted to lose weight. And in the beginning of my journey, it's funny now because I've been in shape, quote unquote, for so long that most people will look at me like, oh, but you were born that way. And I lost 45 or 50 pounds before I even, you know, that was my introduction into fitness was trying to lose weight. And I remember, I don't know how I discovered it at the time because I was pretty young. I think it was 18 when this started, but I found a Tony Robbins thing. And I remember him talking about this pain and pleasure aspect, but it was that everything has both pain and pleasure. And he was saying you can have the pleasure of comfort eating whatever being lazy not you know going to the gym all these things because meal prep is painful going to the gym is painful taking the time is painful saying no to certain things is painful right stepping on the scale at times was painful but in doing those painful things it would lead me to a pleasure of being in better shape, having more confidence, living a longer life, right? Mental resilience, discipline, self-control, self-belief, like all these things are pleasures that come from pain. And the pleasures I was choosing at the moment, partying, alcohol, weed, and I'm not like sober and I don't care if people smoke weed. I live in Washington, so it's legal here. don't personally anymore but I was choosing all these pleasures in the moment that ultimately led to more pain because it was making me less healthy it was making me lazier it was like making me less you know ambitious it was making me less healthy more overweight and that was painful and it's like okay let's outweigh these pains. What's caught, like what pain would I rather have? And the answer in my head instantly was like, I would much rather have the pain of investing my time and effort to meal prep and to go to the gym and to work at these things. Yeah. I don't know how to do it. It's going to be kind of embarrassing at first. Like I used to go to a 24 hour gym and I would go at night, like really late because, and this is the worst business model, I was in a mall in Vision Quest in Auburn, I'll never forget. And they had windows all the way around it that looked into the mall and they lined up the treadmills looking at the windows so people can be shopping and staring at you. And I'm like, I'm not letting someone I went to high school with walk by the mall and see me. So I would go at like 11 PM, um, at first, but anyway, that pain was worth the pleasure. I really want to write. And it was, that was the moment, like it really clicked for me. Um, and it shifted so much in my mind because I think that ultimately, you know, I was actually talking to my buddy about this yesterday who is sober and he started a business around, um, it's called United by sobriety. It's a, it's a apparel company, but it was like, you know, he went cold Turkey on drugs and alcohol because he was in so much pain at the end. And it's like, we don't ever recommend going cold Turkey. It's like, Hey, let's slowly start habits. But there's also periods of times where you've put yourself in such a position where you're so insecure, you're so unconfident. You're so in so much pain that you do have to just make that hard shift because you have to get out of that and experience something better. So for me, that was kind of the first, first like time I experienced that and choose hard didn't come about until more recently because we never had a slogan for our company. You know, we've said different things but i just started saying that at i think it was last year i i stepped on stage in november and it was during my physique prep that i started kind of throwing that out there and then people started saying it and hashtagging it and messaging me and i was like okay this is cool something's here that's

incredible And thank you. Thank you for depicting that. I think what, um, what comes to mind is, you know, really, um, a lot of things come to mind, but frankly, when you look at any kind of Avenue and I'll never forget this, I think it was like my volleyball coach in high school who, you know, we're doing a hard workout and I was always very much the, um, I was a good athlete growing up. I wasn't really good at volleyball. Anyone who was on my team would tell you like, yeah, it was definitely like, just because of the way that I would push myself in workouts. And I remember liking that feeling, liking that feeling of, um, no one would expect me to be able to do, let's say weights or for running like certain time. And I always wanted to try to reach just outside into like a valence that was like, oh, this is going to be impressive. And I used to, um, attach that really to like, you know, who like a mentor, like who could I impress or how could I gain that, you know, a satisfaction of, you know, being like, oh, wow, like you, you did more than I expected. Um, but eventually it tied back, um, throughout my bodybuilding career to how can, how can I wow myself? How can I surprise myself? And I think, um, I used to identify that very much. And this is, um, you know, I can very much hear this in the undertones of your story. It's like, how can I used to attach this to really getting on stage and exclusively like that finish line. But I think the biggest differentiating factor was being able to replicate that daily, which I know you're like, just honed in on with like, okay, the workout, the diet, you know and um reminded me what are you preparing for in in january february i forget the name of it uh

high rocks high

rocks okay okay i mean like just going multi-disciplinary like i mean that in itself is like okay you're seeking something that is obviously different than the bodybuilding stage obviously different than what you've experienced before. But it's commendable, because I think a lot of people would just, you know, continue to refine that single skill. And like, you know, I think there's certainly merit and like pursuing it over a long duration, which you have, and that's not even limited to just sports, like with business, that's something that i think a lot of people they forget is like it's gonna it's gonna suck a lot more before it gets better and that tangible reward that you kind of get in thinking you know you're all fresh eyed you're like well okay it's gonna be cool to be my own boss it's gonna be cool to make my own schedule it's like you're gonna eat a lot of shit before it begins to feel good. And even then, I mean, like hopefully the aspirations continue to grow.

Yeah, absolutely. I think that, you know, there's a couple of things that this, this kind of triggers in my mind. One of them is I'm assuming you've heard of the love languages and they're great. Like I have nothing wrong with them. But I've always been a words of affirmation person. Right. And I remember reading that book and almost like, yeah, I knew that, but then it like really stuck in my head and this is years ago, but eventually I realized that I was never affirming myself with my own words. And I was always seeking the words of others to affirm what I was and the success I was creating and if I didn't get those words then I was disappointed and that's a that's a really shitty thing for somebody right like doing something great and then discrediting it because nobody says something to you right and you you realize you're chasing things for the wrong reasons right and and I think this is part of business too you know at this point after being in the industry for over a decade and running my business now for seven years i've chased the wrong things a few times you know and it's empty and i think that when for me this is actually what like actually started my spiritual journey to like a higher power too is because I started being more satisfied and fulfilled with the voice inside saying, you're crushing it. You're doing the right thing. You're a good person. Your work ethic is showing. And being able to do that on and off screen, being able to do that around people, whether they see it, say anything back or not is like, that's what really gives me the satisfaction now. Um, and I also think that part of, you know, part of my whole, uh, story, let's say, or the, the storyline behind tailored coaching methods, storyline behind shoes hard, um, again, is that average person accomplishing above average things. And that's what has led me to all these different competitions and feats. And I'm a competitive person. I just like doing stuff, but you know, I stepped on stage last year because I had a lot going on in life and with business and with everything. And so I was like, I want to challenge myself during this time just because, just because I want to prove to myself. And then it started motivating other people. And then I had like a couple of people hire me to put them on stage because it motivated them. Right. And then one of these guys just competed actually like last weekend, he has Parkinson's disease and he wanted to compete. And it was because I did that, you know, and there was other clients working with my other coaches. There was people that were just messaging me and like, it helped them. And I was like, this is really cool. And it's, and people, hey, if I can do this, you can do this too. But it was like, okay, yeah, but you've competed multiple times. That's when I was like, okay, what can I do now? And one of my friends was like, you should run a race with me. Like, dude, I don't do endurance. I hate running. I don't do that. And he was like, really? Shoes hard? I'm like, okay. And so I signed up for a half marathon I'll probably end up doing a marathon eventually and I just did that last month as we're recording this and it was like I got 10 weeks to prepare to basically I think it was like 12 weeks I started running and then two weeks in I signed up for the half marathon was like I got 10 weeks to go from like I can run a couple miles to I got to run 13 miles and it's, it's, there's so much mindset involved and there's a lot of really good science on, um, I want to say it's called the biophysiological model, uh, or biopsychological model. Sorry. And it's basically like how your mindset changes your physiology, right? Like, um, they find that people who quit races because they are actually dehydrated, actually dehydrated. They start to feel dehydrated and start talking to themselves about how thirsty they are. And that creates the dehydration effect. But when they actually like sample their muscles and stuff like that, they're not dehydrated. They're not depleted of glucose, like nothing like that. So it's really interesting stuff, but it just goes to show you like training your mind. Right. And then as soon as I finished that, I'm like, okay, what's next? I rocks. And now we got clients flying out to Vegas to do it with us. It's going to be amazing. So it's for me again, like challenging myself, it just ends up helping other people challenge themselves. And that's really what choose hard was all about. And I want people to understand that nine times out of 10 choosing hard, it's a hard thing in the moment that leads to good things long-term. You know, if you choose hard now, you can live an easy life then. But if you choose easy now, you're going to live a hard life for the rest of your life because you're not going to be resilient. You're not going to have discipline. You're not going to have what it takes to actually just get through the hard shit that you don't get to choose to do. And that's the big thing here. If we choose hard, we have control, no matter what hard stuff's going to come our way. And we're going to have to deal with it, you know? So if we prepare ourselves now by doing things that are going to benefit us and they're difficult, it's only going to lead to better things, better traits, better characteristics, and a better life.

I absolutely love that. And I think one of the points that you touched on that I want to expand on really is, you know, being able to keep that promise to yourself and know that like, you know, people will tweet like, okay, well, no, like I'm trustworthy. Like, you know, I can follow through on the commitments, like the ones I really have to, it's like, but what about the commitments to yourself? Like no one's keeping a scorecard for you. And like, that's where I think for me, I very, I can very distinctly delineate the point in my bodybuilding fitness career where there were changes in really how I spoke to myself and truly how I was able to push through some, you know, untouched areas that prior to certain preps, I was like, there's no way I can hack it at this low of an intake or this amount of cardio or shoot, even at this body fat. And it was actually completely separate from fitness. It was more just during a stressful time in my life. I was like, I really need to know that I can trust myself. And I don't feel like I've been working on that skill the way I should be, because there is a lot of doubt. There's a lot of, you know, I don't know, there's a lot of hesitation on, you know, picking a decision and feeling confident in that path. And when I started to make that, um, really a primary focus in day to day and figuring out, okay, like, what is it that I need? What is it that I'm running from? You know, because we do get something out of every action or inaction, you know, like we're doing it for a reason. And I think a lot of people, they'll, you know, kind of default that like, well, no, this is just, you know, this is how I've always done it. And specifically when we're talking about, you know, um, a physique related goal, that's one that I feel like people, they, you know, have these fixed cognitions that, you know, it's always been this way. It's never worked out. So, you know, I am someone who is weight loss resistance. And, um, that's where I think like with, with my branding, with yours, I think the overarching message is very much like, if you can work towards developing this skill, you can have agency over these insecurities that you've probably been carrying around your entire life. And I think being able to give people that give people the autonomy to know like, hey, you went on vacation, you didn't track as strictly as you should have, or you wanted to or you intended to, but that's okay. You know, you came back a little heavier. It's not the end of the world. Like you have the tools, you have the knowledge on how to go about washing this body fat off. You don't have to feel, you by this idea that these five pounds could turn into 10 pounds. And because it's September, it's like, well, now, okay, if the holidays come up and I don't lose this weight by this date, well, then I'm just going to continue to gain past that. And you said something else that I think is extremely valuable for listeners. So I hope they caught this is like the comfort that you choose now is ultimately creating discomfort down the line. And maybe that's a year from now, maybe that's five years, 10 years. Um, but you can either begin to pay off some of that debt or really, I guess it wouldn't even be that you can put money towards that high yield savings or put it away so that it is working for itself now. And even though that might take a little bit of extra work, I mean, like there are absolutely ways that you can continue to challenge yourself and put yourself in those positions where you're kind of forced to become robust, um, without, um, you know, maybe that immediate gratification, which the question I have for you is like outside of fitness, outside of physical endeavors, um, you know, maybe in even like interpersonal relationships. Where was the hard thing for you? What was the challenge that you really had to come to grips with? That was your non-conventional, non, you know, not your fat loss or your physical endeavors. Because obviously at this point, like you have shown, you've mastered those in several domains. Yeah.

And I think, you know, the, the, the fitness side of things is just, that's like the easiest and safest thing to enter yourself into, to challenge yourself and to do this, you know, that's why, and I'm a fitness professional, so I challenge people, but it's training for life, right? Like it's training for what life's going to throw at you. So there's a few things I think that I've gone through. And there's also a few questions that I've learned to ask myself that help me shift my mindset in the moment. Because, you know, and the first one is easier said than done. It's like I hate when people say that, but I also will phrase things to people in this way. I'm like, hey, I know it's easier said than done, but, and then I start talking because I just want to remove that excuse before they respond with it. And the reality is that everything is easier said than done, right? And so in the moment, I can ask myself, what would be easier said than done right now? And I'm going to find a solution, right? And then yes, it's going to be hard to do, but I've already told myself that. And what other, what other scenario or possibility or option do I have? Right. And that's, and that's another kind of question that I often ask people is just, and, and this one kind of pisses people off, but it pisses me off too, but it's good. So if you're, if you're complaining or if you're, you know, woe is me, you're in this situation, just respond with and because you're here. This is what it is. What now? All right. Okay. I get it. I understand. And now when I'm coaching people, I'm going to show grace. I'm going to show emotional intelligence. I'm not going to just literally say that, but in my head, you know, I can kind of do those things now throughout, I think my life, um, there's been, you know, things that like everyday people will go through, um, even like death, unfortunately, you know, like close people in my life dying. That's a really hard thing to go through, you know, and that's a really hard thing to sit through, but there's been challenges in my life that I've actually sat there and gone, like, why is this happening? You know, and one, one really particular one that stood out to me and people might be able to write who have kids. My daughter was born with a kidney defect. So just in a nutshell, one kidney is larger than the other. And so she had duplicate tubes coming out of one of the kidneys, which meant that they would basically compete to get to the bladder. And she would get UTIs really easily. UTIs go up and then cause kidney infections. Um, and so kidney infections cause kidney scarring. That can be a really, really dangerous thing, especially for an infant. So we found this out at seven weeks and she basically had to go on antibiotics for, I think it was four years. Cause she was four years old when she was big enough for them to feel comfortable putting her on anesthesia and taking her through a very serious surgery. Um, and there was just so many times where she would get a hundred and three hundred and four degree fever. We'd have to rush to the hospital. They would be, you know, putting her on catheter and like plugging her in, giving her shots. And it's the saddest thing ever, but dealing with that repetitively while also trying to make sure there's not tension in a marriage of two parents who are stressing about this is a very difficult thing. And it's made us a lot stronger because every situation we can go okay we can make this this can make us worse parents and worse husband and wife or this can make us better parents and better husband and wife what are we going to choose right in that moment to be honest with you choosing hard was being better because I don't want to keep my cool I don't want to be the calm one like I want to tell you to shut up and yell and like get pissed. You know, there's, it's very hard to be that way in those kinds of situations. Um, it's, I mean, it's like the definition of equanimity, right? Being calm while there's chaos around you and that's a skill. So using that and reminding myself constantly in those situations to develop the skill so that other areas of life, you know, and little did I know COVID was going to happen and the craziness of the last four years and all these divides, all this stuff's happening. And I was almost like, I already got my body armor on because I've dealt with it, you know? And so I think stuff like that has really, really shaped me quite a bit. There was another time in my life where I actually, I got jumped actually. And it was, it was a very life defining moment because I should have died and I didn't somehow, I got a hard head. But, you know, I was in a area and a situation at a party that I shouldn't have been at the time. And a male decided to punch a female in the face. And that's just completely against everything I stand for. So I was the first one walking out the door to step in and try to help. And his friend was waiting for me outside the door. And as I walked out, half gallon glass bottle full right outside the head. And I was just unconscious, but they were, you know, curb stomping me into the back of this porch so thankfully i woke up in a bathroom somewhere and then somebody else dropped me off at the hospital it was like the craziest thing but like that near-death experience really really shook me you know and then dealing with a head injury which later actually led to potential testosterone issues and like that went down a whole different rabbit hole of learning a different side of health for me. And it was another challenge and it was another test. And, you know, I think that ultimately all these things for me just kind of kept, kept reminding me that I can, I can grow in these situations if I choose to. And the things I can take away from these situations or learn can make me or break me, can make me so much more successful in life because what other option do I have, right? And I think that's the big thing is like looking at these situations and going, I really have two choices. I can choose hard now or I can choose hard later. If I choose easy and comfort now, I'm going to deal with the hard ramifications of that later. If I choose hard now, as uncomfortable as it is, and I have to be a fast thinker on my feet to do so, I will not only handle this situation better, but I'm not going to pay for anything later on. I'm going to benefit from it later on. Does that make sense?

Absolutely. And I mean, like, I really appreciate you sharing that because, I mean, that really builds this comprehensive picture just of, you know, what, I wouldn't say necessarily what your life has looked like, but it does give the listeners and myself even just insight into really non-conventional facets in which the easy thing to do would have been to, you know, to, to withdraw, to retract a little bit to maybe even second guess yourself. And I think a lot of listeners can probably relate to, you know, um, hardships, uh, points in their life where like, I mean, it's just, it, it doesn't stop, um, where it's made them question like, okay, what is the point of any of this? Like, it just keeps happening. And I'll never forget, um, it's actually my old lash lady back in LA, her boyfriend, they had like a bad accident with, it was like one of their animals attacked another animal and like, it was just awful. And she's telling me how the boyfriend's like really struggling with, he's like, why does this keep happening? Like, what am I doing to deserve this? And it was such an interesting phrasing, I think, like for me, because it's been a long time being like, I've got to think like back to adolescence, like when the last time I felt like bad things happen in like a deserving way. Like, I mean, that's just something as I've gotten older, I've kind of assumed I'm like, no, things happen. And there absolutely is the, you know, the reality that things are random, um, that these occurrences have nothing to do with who you are as a person, obviously your decisions. I don't want to go as far to say like, you know, it's completely out of your control, but, um, in your case, like, I mean, being a parent and like having to care for your daughter, care for your wife, and then, you know, also keep yourself okay. I want to go back to, you know, something you said regarding, you know, picking hard. And in some cases, like that very much is the thing that like societally is like, well, yeah, that's the obvious thing, but it's like, okay, but I am losing it. Like, I'm not doing well. And I want to, I want to say like, I think for me, I think it was, it became very apparent that for a long time, I wasn't giving myself that ability to not necessarily lose it, but I was really leaning into, you know, we'll put these emotions to the side for now. And there was never revisiting it. There's never, um, it's always kind of like brushing it under the rug. And I do think for some people, um, even related to diet, to training, to, um, bouts of, you know, let's just call them unsuccessful phases. It's like, maybe there is something where I guess I should really ask this. Do you think that there's something to ruminating to going back and being like, okay, what are you avoiding here? Maybe that, maybe that hard thing is actually listening to your, listening to yourself, getting in touch with how you're actually feeling about this. Maybe there's something there that can put you, I guess, really set you up on a better path.

Absolutely. I think that, you know, we always call it a reviewing game tape, you know, which is actually ironic because I don't watch sports at all. But when we use that term with our clients, because I think if you, if you fail to reflect, you're going to fail to honestly build wisdom, which wisdom is knowledge and experience together, really, right? You can't create wisdom if you don't reflect on the experiences and the situations you've gone through and then try to pull lessons out of it. So like a really quick, easy way to do this too, is, you know, a journaling practice. We call it positive focus, but what happened? Why is it positive? As hard as that can be sometimes what's the lesson you learn and how do you apply this lesson somewhere else in your life what why how apply like it's really simple right and when you do that you can start to get in a car accident and then find a positive and then apply that positive to your fitness or your nutrition or your relationships or whatever because that's the like why not create something good out of it? But again, this only happens from reflection. And, and I can also relate with, I think this, I think this is a pressure that comes with coaching. It's just kind of par for the course. Um, but you end up, uh, I mean, maybe not everybody does this, but I know I have like isolated myself because I got to, as you said, to put my shit aside because people need me to help them. Right. But eventually you realize, number one, I can't keep helping people if I keep pushing my shit aside. And then also too, if I don't handle this, how do I get better at helping them handle theirs? You know? Um, and I think that's ultimately it's, it's, you know, and I don't want to, I won't say I'm necessarily going to give you pushback on the, uh, like everything happens for a reason, but at a certain point you can stop and go, okay, well, you know, I read this quote that says like, you know, you've been praying for strength. So don't get upset when God gives you something to be strong for. And so if you really think about that, it's like, well, yeah, like what, what do you, what do you want? Who do you want to be? Right. The type of, like, how do you want to identify yourself as a person? What do you want people to say when you're not around? If somebody new comes into the circle and they're like, Hey, uh, what is so-and like, what do you want them to say about you to describe the type of person you are? Because all of those things I can guarantee require choosing hard or going through something difficult and challenging in order to accomplish and develop, right? I want to be disciplined. Okay. Well, you don't create discipline by doing easy things that you feel like doing, right? I want to be somebody who has a lot of self-control. Okay. Well, you don't get self-control unless you put yourself around temptations that you got to avoid, right? Like the list goes on. Every single one of them is something that you're going to have to go through something hard in order to develop the trait so that you can have that characteristic and identify that way.