Navigating New Coalitions for a Stable International Order

In this episode of the ChinaPower Podcast, Ms. Meia Nouwens and Ms. Veerle Nouwens join us to discuss key takeaways from the recent 2025 IISS Shangri-La Dialogue. They start by discussing the significance of the dialogue as a high-level forum for discussion between governments on issues impacting Asian security and they highlight some of the major topics that countries repeatedly brought up throughout sessions, with cross-regional security, hybrid threats, and uncertainty in the international order as three of the most prominent. They unpack President Macron’s speech, who, they note, is the first European leader who has ever been invited to provide keynote remarks at the dialogue, and describe the emphasis he laid on Europe becoming a more active player in the Indo-Pacific region. Meia and Veerle also discuss the attendance from China’s side and point to the notable absence of Chinese Defense Minister Dong Jun. They describe China’s messaging this year as less focused on the United States and instead with a greater emphasis on China’s relationships with regional partners. Similarly, they touch on the variety of current views of China they heard from regional countries during the dialogue, which ranged from viewing China as a cooperative partner, a challenger, and a competitor all to different extents. They describe U.S. Defense Secretary Hegseth’s remarks and note they believe he succeeded in providing some reassurance to allies and underscored his emphasis that the U.S. can work more with partners in the region through increased forward deployment of troops, cooperation on defense industrial capabilities, and greater interoperability. Finally, Meia and Veerle describe what they heard from countries as shared challenges in the region that transcend boundaries and emphasized the consensus among many for the US and China to find ways to cooperate with each other despite their disagreements.  

Ms. Meia Nouwens is a Senior Fellow for Chinese Security and Defense Policy. Meia’s expertise lies in Chinese cross-service defense analysis, China’s defense industry and innovation, as well as China’s regional strategic affairs and international relations. She leads IISS research on China’s Digital Silk Road, and was a co-lead of the China Security Project with the Mercator Institute for China Studies. Prior to commencing at IISS, she worked for the European External Action Service as a policy officer in Taipei, and as a trade analyst in the EU’s delegation to New Zealand. Meia holds a BA Hons in international relations and political science from Macquarie University, a master’s in international relations and diplomacy from Leiden University in conjunction with the Clingendael Institute, and an MPhil in modern Chinese studies from the University of Oxford and Peking University. 

Ms. Veerle Nouwens is the Executive Director for IISS–Asia. Veerle’s expertise lies in Chinese foreign and defense policy, as well as the wider Indo-Pacific defense and security environment. She plays a key part in organizing the annual IISS Shangri-La Dialogue, provides intellectual direction for IISS research on the Asia-Pacific, and works to enhance the profile of IISS across the region and beyond. Prior to joining the IISS, Veerle worked as Senior Research Fellow at the Royal United Services Institute in London, where she established the Indo-Pacific Programme and focused on China and Indo-Pacific security, and as a policy officer in the political section of the European Union Delegation in Singapore. Veerle holds a BA Hons in international relations and political science from Macquarie University, a Master’s in international relations and diplomacy from Leiden University in conjunction with the Clingendael Institute, an MPhil in modern Chinese studies from the University of Oxford and Peking University, and has attended a Mandarin semester programme at Tsinghua University.