For me, i was studying economics, absolutely unaware of anything having to do with the climate, the environment by university. So that's when i started to challenge the kind of economics i was taught. And then you ended up getting your ph d on the link between energy and the economy. Well, even more than that, the link between the economy and the rest of the living world. We're turning some of these clean, nice, useful, enert forms of energy into waste. And materals and were s transforming them and putting them in other places. Sometimes that creates a bunch of problems.

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