Intro

Chuck Todd unpacks the troubling patterns that emerge after every mass shooting, from how the public rushes to confirm their priors to how culture wars are inflamed when a shooter’s identity becomes politicized. With the FBI investigating the latest tragedy as a possible hate crime, trust in law enforcement once again splits along partisan lines, reflecting the deeper polarization running through government agencies and public perception alike. Then, Todd previews his conversation with DeMaurice Smith as he turns to the looming era of labor strife in professional sports—examining how the NFL operates as a “socialist experiment,” how name-image-likeness deals and the transfer portal are shifting the mindset of athletes, and why collective bargaining disputes will be on the horizon.

Then, Chuck Todd is joined by former NFL Players Association executive director DeMaurice Smith to discuss his new book Turf Wars and the untold battles behind the modern NFL. Smith reflects on how he—despite never playing the game—won the trust of star athletes, navigated intense resistance from owners, and fought for free agency and labor protections. He shares candid stories of his uphill battle to lead the NFLPA, from owners attempting to block his election to risking his career to stand with players.

Smith also offers a rare look inside the billionaire owners’ club, likening it to a feudal kingdom where prestige and profit outweigh fairness. He reveals how Roger Goodell consolidated power, why Jerry Jones remains a polarizing force, and how owners exploit their franchises like personal toys. From hidden revenues to weak contract protections, Smith explains why the NFL has thrived financially while leaving players vulnerable. And with college athletes gaining leverage and younger NFL players more empowered, Smith warns that a seismic labor showdown between players and owners may be on the horizon.

Finally, he answers listeners’ questions in the “Ask Chuck” segment.

Timeline:

(Timestamps may vary based on advertisements)

00:00 Chuck Todd’s Introduction

01:00 There’s a pattern to every mass/school shooting

02:15 People always look to confirm their priors with every shooting

03:30 The shooter being trans could inflame the culture wars

04:30 Shooting could be politicized in all the wrong ways

06:00 FBI announces it will be investigated as terrorism/hate crime

07:00 Trust and favorability of law enforcement is polarized

10:00 Agencies are being run by partisans acting partisanly

12:45 The public & Trump view everything through a partisan lens

14:45 DeMaurice Smith TEASE

18:00 We’re about to enter an era of labor strife in professional sports

19:45 The NFL is one of the great socialist experiments in America

22:30 The attitude of future NFL players will change due to NIL/Xfer portal

23:45 We’ll likely see collective bargaining amongst college players

26:45 DeMaurice Smith joins the Chuck ToddCast 

29:45 Why write Turf Wars? Why did the story need to be told? 

31:45 Similarities between political oligarchs & NFL owners 

33:15 Why did you get the NFLPA job despite never playing? 

35:00 Players voted to strike in 80's then crossed picket line 

36:45 Players went through years of litigation to get free agency 

38:15 NFL tried to stop NFLPA from hiring DeMaurice 

41:15 DeMaurice forced to risk his job to run for NFLPA job 

43:15 Was it hard to connect with the players? 

45:15 Star players vouched for DeMaurice to their teammates 

46:00 Goodell visited with multiple teams and it went BADLY 

51:15 DeMaurice was warned, NFL owners are the worst people 

51:45 NFL owners view their team as a toy, vehicle for prestige 

53:45 Owners try to pull equity out of their team without selling it 

55:00 Relationship with Robert Kraft 57:00 Tension between younger and older owners 

57:30 The good and bad of Jerry Jones 

58:15 Jerry Jones frustrated with "freeloading" owners 

1:00:00 The NFL is a feudal kingdom 

1:00:30 Pete Rozelle vs Roger Goodell 

1:03:00 Goodell has done an incredible job generating revenue 

1:04:00 Mike Brown isn't a billionaire without Goodell 

1:04:30 What would the league look like without owners, Packers model? 

1:06:00 Packers requirement to publicly report gives insight into league 

1:08:00 The only rule NFL placed on itself was Rooney Rule, don't follow it 

1:08:45 The NFL is comfortable knowing it's basically above the law 

1:09:45 How much revenue was the NFL hiding under its nonprofit status? 

1:10:45 The league gave up nonprofit status to hide salaries, legal issues 

1:12:00 NFL contract protections weaker than other sports 

1:12:45 NFL culture is "psychologically militaristic" 

1:14:15 Players/owners showing solidarity over kneeling for anthem 

1:15:30 NFLPA is a microcosm for labor standing up to capital. 

1:17:00 College players have more leverage than NFL players 

1:18:15 Newer generation of players will change relationship with owners 

1:20:30 NFL owners fear educated and empowered players 

1:22:15 School should mandate financial literacy courses for players 

1:23:30 Are players concerned about the mess at the NFLPA? 

1:24:45 Players need to understand owners aren't their friends 

1:25:30 There's a war coming between players and ownership

1:27:30 Chuck's thoughts on interview with DeMaurice Smith 

1:29:30 Ask Chuck 

1:29:45 Could local sports coverage change the local news landscape? 

1:41:15 Friendly trash talk of Chuck's Miami Hurricanes and Green Bay Packers 

1:43:45 Is Marco Rubio having any regrets or second thoughts? 

1:49:00 What publication details generational voting records? 

1:54:30 Artificial chocolate + coffee flavoring?