How Do You Shift When You're in a Sales Call

Launch manager, Shannon McCaffery, is our guest for the 124th episode of The Copywriter Club Podcast. We’ve known Shannon for a little over a year and after talking with her about TCCIRL and several other launches she’s helped manage, we thought she’d be a great guest for the show. Here’s a sample of what we talked about: •  how she went from a corporate job to independent business owner •  the biggest lessons she learned from working with Dan Kennedy •  why she doesn’t ever take phone calls on the weekend •  how she earned the nickname, “the product launch chick” •  the three different ways Shannon helps her clients — an idea you can steal •  how she conducts her initial consulting call so she closes more business •  the 5 questions she asks of every potential clients •  what she does during her $8K strategic planning days •  the 3 Ms—message, market, media—and why you need to get all three right •  knowing which events are the right ones to attend •  why you should always take the VIP option (if there is one) at an event •  what’s working in launches today (and what isn’t) and how copywriters fall short when working on them •  how spirituality has impacted her life and business • what the future of online marketing looks like To hear it all, just click the play button below. Or download the episode to your favorite podcast app. And, if reading is your thing, you can scroll down for a full transcript. After we were done with the recording, we asked Shannon a couple of questions about what copywriters need to do to really stand out in their marketplace... we've shared her answer to that a one or two other copy-related questions in the Podcast Extras in The Copywriter Underground.   The people and stuff we mentioned on the show: No BS Insider Circle Ryan Deiss Perry Belcher Yanik Silver Jeff Walker No B.S. Time Management Don’t Make Me Think Brenden Burchard Frank Kern Rob Berkley Secret Prayer by Joe Vatale Wishes Fulfilled by Wayne Dyer The Obstacle is The Way by Ryan Holiday SoulfulVisionMarketer Kira’s website Rob’s website The Copywriter Club Facebook Group The Copywriter Underground Intro: Content (for now) Outro: Gravity   Full Transcript: Rob:   This podcast is sponsored by The Copywriter Underground. Kira:   It's our new membership designed for you to help you attract more clients and hit 10K a month consistently. Rob:   For more information or to sign up, go to thecopywriterunderground.com. Kira:   What if you could hang out with seriously talented copywriters and other experts, ask them about their successes and failures, their work processes, and their habits, then steal an idea or two to inspire your own work? That's what Rob and I do every week at The Copywriter Club Podcast. Rob:   You're invited to join the club for episode 124 as we chat with product launch manager and direct marketer, Shannon McCaffery, about becoming an online marketer, running launches with experts like Jeff Walker and Lisa Sasevich, the role spirituality plays in her life and business, and what's not working in online marketing today. Kira:   Hey, Shannon. Welcome. Rob:   Great to have you here. Shannon:     Hey guys, awesome to be here. Thrilled. This is going to be fun. Kira:   Alright. So, we met you in a Titans master class. We're all members in there with Brian Kurtz, and you and I are actually in an accountability group, so we get to connect on a regular basis, but I don't think I know your entire story, so let's start with how you ended up as an online marketer. Shannon:     Yeah, sure. I actually was in corporate America for a good bit. After that stint, I got to say, I think it was in there 15, 16 years, I don't know, it all rolls together, I lost my job, or they laid me off in a layoff. And basically my mentor came to me, his name is Rob Berkeley, an amazing coach, and he said, ‘Hey, don't go back to corporate America. I just bought this independent business advisor with Dan Kennedy. Come help me run that and I'll help you create your own online marketing business.’ And I said, ‘Sure. Why not? What do I got to lose?’ And that's what happened. Rob:   Okay. Already questions. First of all, working with Dan Kennedy, how was that, but how did the whole building that business go? What were the next steps? Shannon:     Oh, sweet. Yeah. Well, basically at that time this was, I'm dating myself. This was 2006. Basically Dan, they were still independent so it was Bill and Dan, and they were the Glazer Kennedy Insider Circle, right? Basically they sold these independent business advisor, if I can say that word. And they had one for every major city around the country. He bought the Boston one. So basically we were Dan Kennedy and Bill Glazer's arm in Boston. We ran monthly Glazer Kennedy meetings for everyone locally in Boston and the Massachusetts area who wanted to have access to Dan and all of his stuff. Then we also created a Mastermind group, and we would bring those folks to Dan and Bill's meetings that they had twice a year, their big events. Shannon:     It was a pretty amazing experience. We trained people. We created a whole direct response marketing club locally. We did that for four years and it was an amazing experience. Then we built it up enough that we wanted to do other things, so we sold it back to them. It was pretty cool. Rob:   Okay. Cool. How did you go from that then to what you're doing today, which is I think you're doing more on your own, but you're working with some a pretty big name individuals in the launch space and in the online marketing. Shannon:     Right. Well, I think for me what happened was, as you can tell, I'm not a shy person. I don't shy away from much. That experience of being involved with Rob and with Dan, because he was also in Bill Glazer's Mastermind group. Ryan Deiss was in there, Perry Belcher. I got introduced to a lot of the big guys back then, Yannick Silver, Jeff Walker. I mean a lot of those guys were ... They were just starting. They were on the verge of creating and building our businesses. I mean I knew Ryan Deiss and Perry Belcher before they created Digital Marketer. This is when they were doing all sorts of other stuff, right? I ended up hanging out with those guys, and it ended up being in Yannick Silver's Mastermind, because I was in his Mastermind and then I started ... I met Jeff Walker and I started doing things. Jeff and I started talking. I went to his first live event. I actually bought his print product. I still have it. Things just sort of evolve from there. I mean this is going to sound so trite, but it's like life, when you just take a chance, and then stuff just starts happening. Right? It's hard to believe. I mean, this was when Twitter was young, and I was on Twitter, and Jeff reached out to me on Twitter and said, ‘Hey. Let's get on a call.’ This was before Twitter was insane, and social media. I think this was even before Facebook, which is really dating me, or before Facebook really got to be Facebook, but anyway. Kira:   So what was the biggest lesson you learned from working with Dan Kennedy, like a lesson that's influenced your work today? Shannon:     Well, one of the biggest ... Gosh. There's so many. I think first, for anybody that's starting out, I think one of the most impactful things for me is that none of my stuff has to be perfect. I mean I'll never forget this conversation. You guys and I were talking earlier, and this was so funny. You brought this up to me. I remember talking to Rob and I said, ‘You know, Rob, I can't launch my business until I get my business card.’ He's just looking at me like I'm crazy, and I'm like, ‘What do you mean?’ Then I realized, ‘Oh. Wait, nothing has to be perfect, and I don't need a damn business card to start my business.’ I just have to have the courage and the gumption to just do it. Right? That was one of the things, and good is good enough was another huge thing. Like my stuff doesn't have to be perfect, I just need to get the damned stuff out there and then I can perfect it along the way. Dan taught me that. Another really good one with time management. I wrote this down. You guys, for everybody on this call, if you don't have Dan Kennedy's ‘No BS Time Management’, go out and buy it now. I mean it's inexpensive. Go to Amazon. Go get it. I mean it's an amazing book. He talks about time vampires, and he talks about it's all about taking back your time from other people. Don't let other people manage your time. The hilarious thing is that I'm working with Dan on some projects with some clients and the only way you can communicate with Dan is by fax and my clients are like, ‘This is insane.’ I go, ‘Yeah, I know, but listen it works for him.’ How many people are you going to see today? He's inaccessible for a reason. so there's certain things that I learned from him and how he built his business of how you can build yours and one of them is don't let other people manage your time. For newbies, this is huge too, let's say you don't have anything going on for the week. Well, don't let other people know that. Just say, ‘You know what? My only availability is on Tuesdays and Thursdays at two.’ They don't know what else you have going on. But don't let other people manage your time. Manage your time yourself and put boundaries up to be able to say, here's what I can work here's what I can't work and don't be incredibly accessible. I learned that. Even current clients now that call me on the weekends, I don't answer the phone. I could answer the phone, but if I start answering the phone on the weekends, they're going to realize that I'm available whenever they want me to be and I don't want to do that, so that was another thing. Putting up some boundaries around time and time management was huge. Those were a couple. Rob:   That's a great lesson, although I'm going to test you.