I met you and found out about you because of your TED talk talking about the, if we decarbonize, we're going to re materialize. Since we first interacted, there is another war on top of the Second World War and the Algerian War and the Cold War. There's a real war going on in Ukraine between Russia and NATO. I argue that this is a war about imperialism reinvented in light of climate change and ecological disruption. And so one of the arguments that have been developing, particularly here in my work in Europe, has been to say that Ukraine for me represents ground zero for transition warfare.

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