The Contrary to the Traditional Startup Studio Model

The other model that seems to work really well are very well funded established venture firms that are creating their own ideas. These are Pretty tried and true ideas Mostly in the B2B space, but there's a couple like in the consumer space that have broken out. Sutter Hill ventures is probably the best known for this they spun out You know flake at a forty billion dollar valuation and pure storage at a four billion dollar valuation both of which are I think much bigger today.