Cultural Self-Ownership and the Choice of Parenthood

In this episode, we delve into a fierce argument regarding the pronatalist perspective and its societal implications. The discussion kicks off with a bold assertion: anyone having fewer than three children is contributing to the 'cuck' phenomenon. We explore the concept of cuckoldry through various lenses, including labor, taxes, and genetics. Historical and modern-day parallels are drawn, such as the behavior of cuckoo birds and current parenting trends. The conversation also touches on broader societal issues such as media integrity, political dynamics, and cultural shifts influenced by demographics and immigration. The video is peppered with contentious views and data-driven insights on parenting practices, population dynamics, and societal future. The dialogue nuances between genetic perpetuity, societal roles, and personal decisions, making a case for robust family structures as a pillar for societal strength.

[00:00:00]

Malcolm Collins: Hello, Simone. Today, I am going to be making an argument that anyone below replacement rate.

So if you have two kids, you're below the replacement rate. So anyone with less than three kids. Okay, two kids is considered a lot these days. is a cut. Definitionally, you're a cut. Okay. They are contributing to a society, whether it be through their labor or their taxes, that other genetic stock is laying eggs in and slowly replacing it.

Ew! It's true. It's true. They are contributing to a future that their genes do not play a role in. They are feeding the genes of other people, which is what cuckoldry is. Cuckoldry comes from the cuckoo bird, which lays its eggs in another bird's nest, and then they're they take all the food and the other birds end up dying and they, you know, end up being the [00:01:00] what these other birds, this other species of birds is caring for.

The, the cuckoo birds. Because they have stronger children, they have bigger children, they have more robust children. Where the other birds have these Does this not work in this modern time? These high anxiety children who can barely hold it together. They end up just closing off and going in a corner and having a good cry. You having a good cry? Blubbering and crying.

Speaker 9: When you're a wee bubbling and greeting, you're going to come bubbling and greeting on your knees, and going about, it's only one, it's only one.

Malcolm Collins: And, or remove, yeah, remove from the gene pool,

to anyone who doubts me, that kids these days face essentially no punishment, no matter what they do. Watch this video where multiple people in Walmart. Are attacking anyone who attempts to intervene in this little girl's tirade

Protecting children from the consequences of their actions, leads to spiritual and emotional fragility. And desiccation.

Speaker 7: [00:02:00] Oh s**t. Don't y'all do that to a little girl. Y'all don't know what she's going through.

Malcolm Collins: And that's the cuckoo bird children. Children who dealt with hardship.

Children who were punished when they were young. Um,

And this point is a point that I cannot emphasize enough for pro natalist parents. I found one study showing that 74% of parents were practicing gentle parenting and another showing 78% of current parents are practicing gentle parenting.

That's. Parenting without punishment or discipline Your goal is not to remove negative stimuli from your children's life. It is to raise children with robust, ambitious vitals spirits within them. And that is done through stoking their internal wills rather than smothering and protecting them. You need to raise the type of child whose spirit looks like that of the cuckoo in relation

to those whose spirits have been desiccated by the [00:03:00] urban monoculture.

Speaker 11: Cuckoos are brood parasites that trick smaller birds into raising their chicks. In this video, a larger cuckoo chick is being fed by a smaller foster parent that mistakenly believes it's its own offspring.

Malcolm Collins: But it's, it's, it's, it's worse than that..

Simone Collins: If you've no kids, there's little difference between my husband knocking up your wife and me getting pregnant. Either way, you have no kids and he is one more in the nest that we all share, the next generation.

Malcolm Collins: The next time someone bragged about getting sterilized to spite Republicans for winning an election cycle, ask them to please stop sharing their cuckoldry fetish so publicly.

Ouch, Malcolm. It's true across the board. I, I can constantly now see self owns, self ownership, like recently we did an episode where a woman was bragging about how she was sterilizing herself because Trump won this election cycle.

Speaker 7: Okay, for those of us who have a uterus to contend [00:04:00] with, I personally plan to get mine fully yeeted before January 20th.

Not just sterilized, removed. I already knew that I didn't want kids because pregnancy would be a disaster for me medically, but this incoming administration is my cue to make that decision final. My answer to your body my choice is to entirely remove the part of my body they're trying to regulate. It is a rousing f**k you to any shitty man who voted for this.

Speaker 12: The cuckoo

Microphone (Wireless Microphone Rx)-1: Votes manga.

Speaker 12: and within minutes, this baby gets rid of all the competition. Then, the poor old reed warblers end up feeding the imposter, even when it's five times bigger than they are.

Malcolm Collins: It's wild to me that somehow we convinced these mentally and spiritually weak. To do this to themselves. That any animal in nature would voluntarily remove themselves from the gene pool and think it is an own on their opponents,

you rolled the egg out of your own nest. It is a wild to [00:05:00] me that somehow. We are raising a generation of cocoons to replace those. The urban monoculture has memetically and spiritually sterilized.

And it's not even immoral because they have chosen to do it to themselves.

As it was with an immigrant boyfriend, by the way, so you're sterilizing someone an immigrant may have knocked up.

Okay that that seems counterintuitive to your aims of your aims are increased or maintaining our current diversity.

And if you are wondering why I am making an argument, that may sound mean-spirited. Those with less than three kids are definitionally cucking themselves. For the pro natalist movement to be effective.

It needs to find ways to not just intellectually argue that having kids is good, but to emotionally argue

In a way that changes how individuals see themselves and others, not just that having kids is good, but not having kids is bad. [00:06:00]

And having kids below replacement rate is bad.

And giving into the urban mono culture and making you our kids emotionally and spiritually fragile is bad.

for men, the fear of dying a cook is a very powerful, emotional motivator.

The other side uses emotional pleas very effectively. And if we can effectively frame them as just angry, tweeting, cucked, little birds. Than it is easier to drown out these emotional pleas. Or a great other self owned, I've seen constantly recently. So here's a piece by NBC News which is journalists flock to blue sky as X becomes increasingly quote unquote toxic.

And by toxic, of course they mean having opinions that aren't their own. And flagging them when they lie about things because they've been lying about things a lot. I don't know if you remember the, I think NBC did this and MSNBC did this at one point where they did a thing where they tried to make it look like Joe [00:07:00] Rogan was supporting Kamala Harris by bringing together clips of him supporting Tulsi Gabbard with Kamala Harris.

Speaker 15: It has to do with comments that he made about Tulsi Gabbard..

Speaker 16: But then ,

Speaker 15: Rogan called out MSNBC, saying that they posted a TikTok earlier this month that suggested that he said both of those remarks about Harris. She's gonna

Speaker 16: win.

No, she's not. She can win. She is a strong woman. She is a person who served overseas twice in a medical unit. She was a congresswoman for eight years. Yeah. She is a person of color. She's everything you want. ,

Speaker 15: Tulsi even sharing the clip and writing. MSNBC is again exposed as a propaganda machine for the Democrat elite, and how they will brazenly try to deceive the American people.

Malcolm Collins: And it's like, Oh, you don't like being called out on your disinformation. And so you're bragging about, as we've mentioned, like the guardian has left Twitter. You're bragging about moving to a platform that has, and I love, they'll talk about, and this is what they constantly do. They'll be like, X has like 300 [00:08:00] million active users.

And we have 27 million accounts. It's like, how many active users? Do you have money? Because you just compared accounts to active users and they're like we have around a million. Oh We have So it looks like no, I think it's X has what is it a hundred million active users like tuna? I can't remember.

I'll edit in post

Microphone (Wireless Microphone Rx): 237.8 million daily active users.

Malcolm Collins: And they've got I remember 1 million active users before the presidential cycle 3 million active users now They are around 1 percent of Twitter. They are not relevant. They are bragging about entering an echo chamber where no one is going to hear or listen to what they're doing.

Speaker 5: My safe space. People don't judge me and haters don't hate In my safe

[00:09:00] safe space.

Speaker 6: You will see There's a very select crowd In your safe space

Speaker 5: People that support me Mixed in with More people that support me And say nice things My

Speaker 6: you cannot stop me from getting inside! I am cold and I am hard, and my name is Reality!

Speaker 5: Oh no, not Reality! Somebody stop him!

Simone Collins: So what would you say to the counter argument and the observation made by many people talking about prenatalism, that Pronatalists are in the end, these people having more than two kids are ultimately paying for all the people who aren't having kids, that we're funding their lifestyle and they are

Malcolm Collins: financially

Simone Collins: abusing us, our children.

Malcolm Collins: Yeah, well, but we genetically win at the end of the day, and I don't think that our children are going to [00:10:00] care for you in your older years in the way you expect them to. Well, they're going to be

Simone Collins: forced by their governments through tax to pay for it. If they

Malcolm Collins: stay in governments that attempt to do that. I think government are going to find the talent and the increasingly concentrated wealth pools leave very quickly.

I think they think, Oh, well, I fed the cuckoo because the cuckoo children were the strongest children. And I expected the cuckoo to care for me in my retirement. And then what I realized is the cuckoo don't give a s**t about me. The cuckoo thinks I am the enemy. The cuckoo, oh, yes, it suckled from my teat for a while, but it does not care at all.

And I think that they think that they're going to be extracting a lot more from our children than they're actually going to be extracting. And I think that I am okay with individuals, even ourselves from framing things this way. Oh, because that's a good way to get to [00:11:00] progressives, right? Like a progressive doesn't understand that.

And so we're like, okay, well, don't you understand that you're foisting your responsibility on the migrants that you are taking into your country? And they're like, oh, I guess. Yeah. So we're really hurting migrants. But the reality of the situation is, is those migrants children when they're like, yeah, we want to throw, you know, LGBT people off roofs and the progressives are like, you won't be thinking this in 20 years.

And it's like the ones that didn't continue thinking that are the ones that stopped having children. The ones that did keep thinking that. And had a lot of kids are the ones that are going to set the tone of your culture moving forward

What would happen to a gay couple in Gaza?

Executed according to Islamic law. Islam doesn't endorse gays. Islam doesn't endorse homosexuality. Just like Canada doesn't endorse a lot of things. So would you like to see Sharia law in Canada replace Canadian law? At some point, it will. You know, Because we are, we have families, we are making babies, you're not your population is going down the slum, right?

And [00:12:00] by 2060, according to Pew Research Institute, your research, by 2060, Muslims will be the biggest religious group the world over. What are you going to do then? Are you going to oppose Sharia even then? One day we can have a Muslim majority nation here in Canada.

Right In your face!

Malcolm Collins: And people are then like well The people are then like well malcolm Are you saying you're concerned about these immigrant groups that you know have these incredibly um Uh, I guess archaic of belief systems that are really antagonistic to things like gay people and stuff like that.

And I'm like, they should be concerned about them, but I'm not because these people are not particularly technologically competent. And they'll be bringing the types of people who think that gay should be thrown from roofs. They are not the types of people who develop advanced AI drone systems. By the way, if you want to hear a cool AI story recently, I saw a story about an AI dog that was being used to deliver drugs to people.

And when the police, It, [00:13:00] it was in Russia

Simone Collins: and

Malcolm Collins: internally erased its own like, like burned its own navigation system and hard drive. So they couldn't find out who it belonged to. So it allows drug runners to run drugs to locations without any risk at all. Oh gosh.

Simone Collins: I first thought that you meant like aid, pharmaceuticals you know, malaria drugs.

No, this was like, okay, the fun stuff. Okay. All right. Isn't that kind of wild? That's so fun. I'm done. Yeah, I mean, much better that than a human with something shoved up a bodily cavity that we don't want things shoved up. That's very interesting. Good. Good for that. I can't, I think we can buy robot dogs now.

Can't we? If we want to. Yeah, we can. Like the Boston Dynamics dog. Isn't that for sale? That's for the Boston Dynamics dog. Oh, that's so cool. Honestly, I bet their team is thrilled. That's so cool. I mean just to know that because I mean, you know, you know that your tech is useful when When a drug [00:14:00] cartel uses it The government uses it.

You never know if it's like maybe you were just really good at rfps Maybe you just were really good at marketing. Maybe you knew the right person good way to know

Malcolm Collins: that crypto was gonna do well I guess look for the cryptos the drug runners are using the most and that's the cryptos to invest in. But no I I Genuinely, like when we frame things this way, this is what a cuck is.

And so we're going to talk about two things going forward in episode one. I'm going to be talking a lot about crystal cafe that I found pretty interesting, where a lot of people bragging about losses here. And I never, so wait, define

Simone Collins: crystal cafe. Cause you had mentioned this to me for the first time this week.

I'd never heard of it before. Does this just come out of nowhere? Am I just that, I don't know how

Malcolm Collins: long it's been around, but it is a. Female version of reddit, and it is very clearly a female version of reddit. I thought you meant a female version of

Simone Collins: 4chan.

Malcolm Collins: I'm sorry, a female version of 4chan is very clearly a female version of 4chan.

And after this we're going to talk about the statistics around cuckolding, and the statistics around cuckolding as they relate to political opinions and views and stuff like that. But I'm going to go over like representative stuff [00:15:00] from Crystal Cafe. And, and you can react to what's being said and talked about there.

So here's one where they posted, cause you know, they do images like on 4chan. I don't like kids. I didn't even like kids when I was a kid. And it's Daria sitting there. And then somebody saying, does anyone else feel this way? I just see a woman with a kid. I feel almost betrayed in a way. Like I fought so hard for abortion rights and you decided to have some Moids crotch spawn.

I know it isn't rational, but I can't be alone in feeling this way. And then some of the responses are things like only if it's a boy really women having daughters is always nice to hear But especially knowing if the daughters to grow up with good childhoods I otherwise constantly feel depressed knowing how many girls out there are going through unstable families I being one of them and somebody was like, you sound extremely better.

And she goes, you sound like a boy. This is what they call men in this. There has to

Simone Collins: be some additional connotation to this. In

Malcolm Collins: [00:16:00] Moyd Noid, Noid, I think is, is for females. And so that's a translation of that. And then they go on to say, I have a special hatred for women who don't abort their sons. And I'm like, what?

This is, this is very much Like, what I'm talking about here, like, being proud of being cuckolded by the rest of society. When you don't have kids, and they are having kids, in many ways, it's even worse than, like, if you're, like, an extreme lefty, than if I directly knocked up your wife. Because if I directly knocked up your wife, at least the person you chose to share your genes with would be having more kids.

Than me, and my based Republican wife, having more kids, replacing you. And keep in mind, the way you vote is about 40 percent genetic in the mainstream academic studies on this, even by Wikipedia standards on geno politics. Hold on, I will read more, [00:17:00] Simone. I don't really hate my nieces.

They're fun, but I cannot live with a child. I mean hell there are enough children in the world They talk about population decline, but everyone I know had the kid. I don't buy it. I don't hate my sisters No, lol what so weird that they like don't buy it and like they're thinking is like this brain rotted sort of loop Well, it just seems like the

Simone Collins: classic anti nabalist hedonistic very very self centered very very in one's own head You Mindset that is pervasive among young people and very online people today.

Is that, I mean, that seems standard.

Malcolm Collins: Yeah, well, okay. So here's a fun one. So they were talking about artificial wombs in this one. So i'm trying to find good quotes here

Where they're like, we are replacing men. Men used violence to make sure they got 100 percent of education and domestic servant class underneath them. Physical strength becomes less important. Women get more equal rights, and suddenly we're vastly outpacing them [00:18:00] in college. White collar jobs, and it'll only get worse.

will be the majority of STEM fields eventually too, though it will take a few generations. Once moids lose the ability to force a woman to be his personal domestic servant, they just can't function. Thankfully, technology will only accelerate this. Automation will make their physical labor ever less valuable.

Reproductive technology will take away that advantage, and eventually allow us to just stop making moids in general, or stop making men in general. God, stop making me hopeful. I think moids are well aware of this. I'm an American and I think that's why laws are becoming more pro great ape with forced births and scrote flipper babies.

And soon they'll want no fault divorces so they can use their wives as punching bags while they grape their own offspring. Then again,

Simone Collins: the only socially toxic environments I've been in are female dominated. environments. I am, I cannot imagine [00:19:00] a world with only women and world with only women

Malcolm Collins: companies that try to go like only women and then they immediately realize what a f*****g terrible.

No, but just understand like how toxic they are. Somebody like pushed back and they're like, well, You know, I don't, I don't think this would work. And they're like, well, then we'll just f*****g poison your food moide. And then another one came in and said, I would just start keeping poisoned dicks as trophies at that point, to be honest.

And then another one says I would sedate him, tie him up in my basin and torture him for weeks until he's dead. Or another one then said, why don't we just harvest moids sperm as soon as they reach puberty and call them off LMAO.

Simone Collins: I feel like this is just status hierarchy elbowing for like, you know, this is shock value.

Malcolm Collins: It was very similar to 4chan and it really reminded me and I thought that this was actually like incredibly funny. Somebody was like, I [00:20:00] was on 4chan and I heard about this 4chan for females and I was like, oh, I don't know.

I should go there. There's gonna be a lot of single, like, incel y women that I can pick up on. And then he started reading the comments. He's like, oh my god, these women are like, so hate men, and they're so toxic in the way they view men. If they didn't act this way, I'm sure they'd have no trouble getting a boyfriend.

And then he had this, like, moment of realization. Like, the Pepe frog with, like, galaxy spiraling out of its mouth. Which is, I think what we are for a lot of people is a chain from like a 4chan viewpoint of the world to a viewpoint of the world where they can humanize women and realize, you know, there are sane women out there.

If they, Well, not on this website, apparently. Why can't

Simone Collins: we just all get along, people? I, we want the same thing, broadly speaking, don't we? Hold on,

Malcolm Collins: but I actually think even on this website, they are really open to be talked to. They are really open to, Let's just say, [00:21:00] if you go to the section of the website that talks about frequent, like, fantasies they have being subjugated by conservative men is a very common fantasy on this subreddit.

And being forced to serve conservative men, or even raped, is pretty common. In their, like, fantasy section. And they're like, of course I never want this to happen in reality, but I'm just talking about, like, what gets me off when I think about it. Also a weird amount of attraction to their fathers.

I know, right? Let's just say that these aren't exactly the most, I'm not gonna kink shame, I'm not gonna kink shame, okay? But I don't know if the arousal patterns that they have are highly correlated with mental stability.

Simone Collins: Don't even know what

to

Malcolm Collins: say, this is so weird, so weird. I mean, what do you think of environments like this?

Like, I, I think that this is true and I think that through seeing this and through working on an environment like this, [00:22:00] some red pillars might be like, or some 4channers might be like, oh. I think that if they learn to humanize girls, they would better be able to target males as romantic partners.

Simone Collins: Is this a But do they want to?

I mean, it seems like they don't they don't want to. Or like, I think, what I see, I see this a lot in, in culture in general, is that, There is great interest and sort of desire for the other sex, both among women and men, but then this cultural understanding that the other sex is repugnant and evil and we have to not like them and they are the enemy.

And so there's this weird push and pull. That's why I keep thinking like we've got to find some way to leverage the enemies to lovers trope because like this is maybe this is how we can bridge the divide.

Malcolm Collins: They're already into it. Look, they don't, they don't, they, they are looking for a guy. This is the thing about guys who like don't date progressive women.

[00:23:00] So many of them are just looking for a guy that they see as a strong leader who they do not see as victimizing women. If you, unfortunately, if you do the stupid thing, like you leave them at home and you go work every day and they get on online forums, they'll get brainwashed and start to hate you. If they go to a job that you're not involved in, I really do think that the sword and shield marriage, the working together with your wife is the only pathway, because when you atomize yourself from your wife, you provide Cultist the opportunity to brainwash her.

But when you don't provide this opportunity, when you are the strong leading force in her life, you don't have to worry about this. These women, they're not like you, basically. They want that and they would change from these illogical and self deprecating and self hating mindsets if they had that.

But so few guys are willing to provide that anymore, I think, is part of the problem. They, they get in these, misogynistic [00:24:00] mindsets that prevent them from humanizing the women that they are targeting. And so they cannot think through, Oh, this is what she likely actually wants. Like, but I'm not seeing her as a annoyed or whatever.

Right. Now let's talk about cuckolding because this is the cuckolding episode. This is the us calling out all those cucks out there. And interestingly there was another guy who did studies on this and found that while masochism was higher among Democrats cuckolding was higher among Republicans.

And we

Simone Collins: were seeing that. That's why I'm like, I'm not sure where you're going to take this. I'm very curious.

Malcolm Collins: We'll get into the data, but I actually think the reason is Is that a certain portion of the population is born with arousal through humiliation? And in democratic men, they are more likely to be okay gaining that arousal through humiliation and denial Through being subs And being [00:25:00] subjugated by their partner.

Whereas the Republican leaners, I think are less likely to be interested in being subs or subjugated. And so they get the humiliation arousal by their wives being was a male they see as superior to them. So that makes perfect sense to me. It's not something I would be into at all, but I get it.

Like, I, I see if you are aroused by and you can read our book, The Pragmatist Guide to Sexuality, if you're wondering why people would be aroused by that. But one guy for his book Tell Me What You Want, The Science of Sexual Desire the limiter, he surveyed Americans and found that 58 percent of men and about a third of women had at some point fantasized about cuckolding.

Now I suspect that him and in our own data, This is done pretty poorly because I do not think that they likely asked the important question, which is, do you prefer to sleep with other men's partners, or do you want your own partner being slept with by other [00:26:00] people? So, for example, as I've mentioned in the past, I have found myself Aroused enough by the idea of sleeping with someone else's partner.

And just keep in mind that like, I'm not, you can be like, Oh, you'll never run a Republican seat saying something like that. I'm like, Trump said this. Trump literally said he liked sleeping with his friends wives. As to why men would have an unusual attraction to this. The reason being core, like, of course, they're caring for your genes.

It's the best possible scenario. From a genetic standpoint, of course I am going to, when I am more aroused by a scenario, what that means is I am willing to accept potential partners who I genetically wouldn't tolerate if I thought I had to raise their children. Basically what that's, what it means to say, I am additionally aroused by this scenario.

So that's what I'm saying, like from a genetic standpoint or an evolutionary standpoint when I'm saying that I think that they're not controlling for that potentially. And I think even with the republicans, they may not be controlling [00:27:00] the republicans who said they were interested in cuckoldry where they meant they were interesting and culturally as the dominant partner.

Not as a submissive partner or submissive might be the wrong word, but the one being cuckolded. Now an interesting thing is they did a follow up survey of 580 gay men who are already into cuckoldry. And the Gay men were not as interested when it came to cataclysm as the in the bdsm scenes or the interracial scenes as frequently as to why Specifically, I think the interracial scenes are less common in the gay community.

I think it's because the Humiliation that's gained through cut coldry in a interracial phenomenon is the idea of it being very clear that your genes are being erased and I think that a lot of people really like that idea and I think that that when and I think Attacking people online when they're like bragging about not having kids for engaging in cuckoldry fetishry So when somebody's like I'm having my uterus removed be like keep your cuckoldry fetishes off of [00:28:00] my blue sky or X Yes, we'll replace you.

That's fine or here's a fun one that's interesting. If you want to talk about the increase in cuckoldry searches for cuckoldry on porn websites have increased by 57 percent in the last three years. It's estimated that there are around 6. 25 million us couples who have an active cuckold relationship.

Now, I will note that this leads to a high degree of divorces. Two out of ten married couples who engage in cuckoldry get divorced due to jealousy. That's 20%, so not a ton, but still a lot. And of young adults, 18 to 29, who practice cuckoldry, five out of ten relationships end in a breakup. While 20 percent end up practicing this throughout their lives.

Simone Collins: Part of me wonders, though, I feel like a lot of people may not Be able to parse out well, the difference between cuckoldry slash swinging slash polyamory. Because I mean, I think that there's, I mean, like if, if you find it arousing to sleep with other men's women or to have [00:29:00] other men sleep with your woman, for example, like some people will be like, yeah, it's cause I'm Polly and other people would be like, yeah, it's cause I'm a swinger.

And other people would be like, yeah, cause I'm into cuckoldry. Oh, that would

Malcolm Collins: also explain why Democrats are into it less, because they're not being honest with themselves. They're like, I'm just Pauly. I'm just Pauly, exactly. I'm with five other men. And conservatives are like, yeah, I'm a cuckold, whatever.

That, that's probably a big part of it.

Simone Collins: So Yeah, I feel like it just, in terms of measurement here, there's so many Like the extent to which you're exposed to or you call things or label things, there are too many ways to label this.

Malcolm Collins: I agree with that a hundred percent. And I also went back to our old data on cuckoldry to see what it was most correlated with in terms of other fetishes instead of just being Republican.

And so admitting that you are into cuckoldry. Being dirty was one where it was a big discrimination. So men who are into cuckoldry, 41 percent engaged in some form of pornography where being dirty was part of it, and only 5 percent of men who weren't into cuckoldry engaged with that. Oh, by the way, to be able to get an example, That's so weird.[00:30:00]

Was looking at regular masturbation. And our sample only showed way lower than the other samples, only 18 percent of men into cuckoldry. So one in five men, which is still a lot, but I mean, it's not, you know, as much as the other things. Voyeurism might be motivating a lot of cuckoldry with 71 percent of the men who are into cuckoldry also into voyeurism and only 28 percent of the men who weren't into cuckoldry into voyeurism.

So that's a huge difference. Here's an interesting one. Caregiver little 2 percent of men who weren't into cuckoldry were into caregiver level 24%. So almost one in four of the men in the cuckoldry within the caregiver levels. relationships. Here's another fun one. Bestiality. 0 percent of the men not into cut culture were into bestiality.

24 percent sorry, no, 12 percent of the men who were into cut culture were into bestiality. So about one in ten guys. I think that's,

Simone Collins: no, I think that has more to do with co cultural already, something where you have to have kind of really delved into [00:31:00] and been open with yourself about your arousal pathways to discover like, yeah, okay, I'm actually into this, I'm going to say I'm into it on a survey.

That, that means you're also more likely to be someone who has delved deep enough into their arousal pathways to admit on a survey that they're into bestiality. So again, I think that's more about

Malcolm Collins: knowing. The humiliation here is, is, is I think the really telling one because the rates are just so high.

Even higher than the difference in voyeurism. Which is to say that 71 percent of men who are into cuckoldry are into humiliation. And only 11 percent of men who are not into cuckoldry are into humiliation.

Simone Collins: Well, it isn't your theory around bestiality that it is about humiliation? Primarily. Yeah,

Malcolm Collins: well, it's about, yeah, I think fear of being rejected is also part of it.

And humiliation is another part of it. By the way, I was recently editing our episode I can't remember what I was talking, like, some guys are, like, confused, very confused by what women are into because they've been sort of brainwashed by the [00:32:00] red pill movement and they don't understand women very well.

And they're like, how did a guy like Malcolm get lots of girls to sleep with him really easily? And other guys are like, do you not see that he's like the Harry Potter archetype? Like, of course, like the nerdy, confident otherwise goal directed guy, like that that is. And I realize the mistake that people are making, that is being fed to them by the leaders of the, online like masculine community is a lot of these guys have risen in power hierarchies because they look like a man who should rise within power hierarchies.

They look uniquely buff or fit or something like that. What guys do not realize is the buff fit man is the equivalent of a woman with good makeup. The only people who care about that are other women. This is an in yeah, it's it's preening behavior. It's preening Right. It's preening behavior. It's an internal sexual hierarchy and not external sexual hierarchy and they're like, well, why is it?

That when and this is the studies that [00:33:00] this was the big break for me When I realized that they were looking at studies where they would show different body types and say like, which man do you most want to sleep with? Like, which man do you find most attractive of the samples? And they'd be like, look, women are choosing the really muscular men.

And I'm like, you are showing a fundamental misunderstanding of how women choose their partners. I would ask you to take that same sample of women and then say, draw the guy that you have fantasized most about. Okay. Or draw the last guy that you, you last had an obsession with, a sexual obsession with.

What does he look like? Who is the last guy who you became obsessed over and had increasing intrusive thoughts about? That's where you find what women are actually overwhelmingly I'm picturing

Simone Collins: a scene from Turning Red where she's under her bed and she draws a picture of the guy she has a crush on as a mermaid

Malcolm Collins: or something.

Okay, his shoulders are kinda [00:34:00] nice. His eyes are Fine.

Malcolm Collins: Yes! No, that's actually it. Well, and this is the thing where guys are like, Women must be into like really tough men. I was like, I, I hung out on Tumblr when it was like a woman porn site, basically, where women were just drawing, like, what they were into back then, and it's like, the Onceler, and like, Jack Skellington, and like, it is.

Simone Collins: Yes, and what was with like all the Onceler, like, it was, it wasn't just the Onceler, it was the Onceler, like, coming on to himself, like, Yeah, it's like

Malcolm Collins: gay one,

Simone Collins: like

Malcolm Collins: yeah. Like you guys have no, if you, if you refuse to accept what women are really like, then you are not going to be successful with women.

And the last time we mentioned, we're like, well, women. I actually read most of their porn. And if you look at the [00:35:00] types of romance novels that women are reading, this ultra buff, physique is actually fairly rare.

People like, no I've seen romance novel covers. They have like big burly men on them. And I'm like, then you have seen romance novel covers in a cartoon because in real life, that is actually fairly rare.

So just as an example of this, I Googled on Amazon. , romance novels. And then ignored the sponsored list. And of the first 10 recommendations. Only the 10th had a burly man on it.

And even then it wasn't like an overly muscled guy.

Women are not turning you down because of how you look,

That's an excuse that you are hiding behind.

they're turning you down because you're not trying to learn what women really want. Or how to attract women. Or just trying enough in general, when I found Simone, I had been going on five dates a week for years.

I think a [00:36:00] portion of the men's rights movement and the red Pill movement has attempted to internalize their own view of what women should be like by.

What would arouse them most if women are like, and so they hear things like, Oh, like we talked about in a recent episode that we did on like, are women actually into the handmade sale scenario where it's like, Oh, overwhelmingly women are aroused by things like choking. And the women who aren't are a minority, but they are very, Disgusted by it.

Like you see this bifurcation here, but this doesn't mean that the average woman is not aroused by these more violent scenarios, and they think that that means that women like being pushed around. They think that that means that women like, and it's like, oh my God, read, read the books that they're reading.

Okay, Fifty Shades of Grey, for example, or any of the, the, the common, do these guys push these women around? Do they talk to [00:37:00] them with disrespect in a way, but in a way that is hyper coded and protective?

And this is just , missed, missed, missed. The, person that a woman, when she's given a smorgasbord, that's how men think about a partner. They like. Think they're going to be given like a smorgasbord of like harem maidens, and then they just choose the one that's most arousing. Yes, women might be choosing more muscular men in that scenario, but they find that scenario Ixos.

That's not what they want. That's not what they're obsessing over. And so if you look at that, you are going to end up deluded. And then you're like, Oh, so the men who look in a way that doesn't lead them to be at the top of masculine dominance hierarchies, they're the ones who clean up with women. And it's like, YES!

YES! You're getting it now. You're getting the Jack Sparrow effect. You're getting the Loki effect. In Marvel. Marvel. Who did all the women obsess over? Out of all [00:38:00] the characters they could have obsessed over.

Speaker 23: Am a god, you dull creature, and I will not be bullied by half of you

Malcolm Collins: if your understanding of women can't explain why Loki was the character they obsessed over, then you don't understand women.

And if your explanation Well, and then also, like, weirdly, like, dad bod Thor? What was that?

Simone Collins: I don't get people. Women liked dad bod Thor! Yeah, what was that? It was Loki and dad bod Thor. That's who people were talking about. Why? I don't know. It's just the truth. I'm just looking though. I get

Malcolm Collins: low key. Um, I like pale, skinny looking

Simone Collins: people.

Yeah. I'm a tad

Malcolm Collins: butt door

Simone Collins: though.

Malcolm Collins: Not my

Simone Collins: thing. Yeah.

Malcolm Collins: And, and I think that this also means that when guys actually accept the way women [00:39:00] actually think, they'll realize they have a lot more of a shot than they think they do.

Simone Collins: Yeah. There's probably a lot of guys who just assume that they have no chance and they do.

And, and then the conversely, there are a lot of guys who think that they're hot And they're not. So it is hard to, hard to parse these things out, but yeah, I mean, in the end, it doesn't matter. The people who are going to have a lot of kids are going to have a lot of kids. And,

Malcolm Collins: i, I think the motto of the pronatalist movement is, we will do it.

Simone Collins: We

Malcolm Collins: are the Cuckoos. We are raising the strong children. We are disciplining them to be resistant. We are disciplining them so that they don't have these horrifying mental health issues. We are not retreating to the refuges of LARPing some past tradition that obviously isn't protective. We are actually trying to rebuild the ship in real time.

I want to see if I can find the clockwork planet scene here, which I was in [00:40:00] anime. I was watching recently. That was such a perfect example of the antinatalist versus the pronatalist. And then the antinatalist guy is saying to the protagonist, which is a female male partner

Speaker 6: it doesn't look like those two have any intention of giving up.

Speaker 5: Gain from this?

Speaker 3: You pretended to repair the world, but really you were deforming it. Do you understand yet how it feels to be powerless? To be unable to resist while the world crumbles? Can you taste the despair? This is how humanity has suffered

Speaker 5: how the hell can you be so arrogant?

Nobody gave you the right to speak for all of humanity!

Speaker 4: You may have given up, but whatever happens, we never will!

Speaker 3: You can praise humanity all you want, but I won't accept it.

Speaker 3: You will know despair. You will feel how heavy a crime it was to twist the world.

Speaker 4: Marie, I'm finishing up the Torbjorn and [00:41:00] hooking it up to the bypass now.

Speaker 5: It's like no repair work I've ever

Speaker 6: seen. That's because it isn't repair work. They're giving birth to brand new gears.

Speaker: The holy tree has been completely reborn.

Malcolm Collins: And I think that that's what the pronatalist movement is versus the antinatalist movement is they are the most cartoonish villains I could hope for in my life arc, to the extent that I find it unfortunately further evidence that I might be in a simulation. That's just trying to get me.

Simone Collins: I don't want to wake up if this is a simulation. I think it's great. Final thoughts? Perinatalism remains a very low stress

cause

and I still think, yeah, it, it's about having a lot of kids. It's not about having two [00:42:00] kids or one kid. It's, it's about going into it. Either you're into it or you're not.

Oh, I want to have one kid. I'm like, then you don't matter. Like when people at the But it's not just that. It's like the, it's the worst. And of course, some people are, are restricted by fertility problems and other things that they just can't control. And I'm not, I don't want to judge people who have only one kid, but when you've had one kid, you have taken 80 plus percent of the sacrifice of the hit to your life.

Yeah. Because now, 24 7, you will be responsible for someone for the next 20 years or more. Who's, who needs you. And, and yet, you're not getting nearly any of the benefits of being a parent. And your kid isn't either. Like, kids seem to really flourish with

Malcolm Collins: siblings. very likely to, and you look at the data on this.

If you have one kid, they're going to have one kid. Your DNA is happening every day.

Simone Collins: That kid is not getting opportunities to care for others, to learn how to be selfless, to learn, have challenges, [00:43:00] develop boundaries, play all the time.

Malcolm Collins: I would prefer people have no kids to one or two kids.

Simone Collins: Yeah, I honestly, yeah.

I feel like it's better to do no kids or at least three for sure. I I'm with you on that. And it's not something I came into this thinking at all. So that's

Malcolm Collins: good. Not that you've been a parent of four. You're like, obviously.

Simone Collins: Yeah, no. And it's, it's so much harder just having one or two kids. It gets easier starting with three, which is terrible because everyone tells you they're like, well three's the worst and that's when it started getting better Well,

Malcolm Collins: I think these are people who space out their kids a ton I mean you should be having yeah

Simone Collins: Yeah,

Malcolm Collins: yeah Yeah,

Simone Collins: I think if yeah if you get used to like life without diapers and then you go back to diapers Would be a nightmare, but we're just gonna have diapers for the next who knows how long I love you too.

Welcome.

Malcolm Collins: What are we doing for dinner tonight?

Simone Collins: I was, so what I was going to do today, cause now we don't [00:44:00] have really slices of turkey anymore. We have shreds of turkey is to so a couple options. One, I can do like a golden curry brick with white rice for you, or we can do fried rice and, but I could, I could separately do

Malcolm Collins: taquitos,

Simone Collins: turkey taquitos.

Malcolm Collins: Would that not work?

Simone Collins: Just like cheese and plain turkey. You'd like that? It seems awfully plain for you. I dip it in sauces. Okay. But like, you're okay with plain turkey inside with cheese.

Obviously there's cheese.

Malcolm Collins: Well, how about this? You, you put a little bit of the salsa you made on

Simone Collins: it.

Malcolm Collins: And it would probably make them soggy on the inside.

If I, if you want to try something else, I'm also, I'm really happy. As

Simone Collins: long as you're okay with like dipping them in sauces for flavor.

Malcolm Collins: Just make sure you use a cheese and we got to get sharper cheddar for our cheese for this.

Simone Collins: Okay. Well, I, yeah, I can put in, do you want me to put in a little bit of hot

Malcolm Collins: sauce

Simone Collins: with it

Malcolm Collins: or something?

No, it'll be good. I'll dip [00:45:00] it in hot sauce or whatever. Okay. So

Simone Collins: then what I'm going to do first is saute the turkey and sort of shred the butter to both like heat it up and just add some fat. Then I'm going to. Okay. Melt well, I'm going to put the tortillas in a pan with butter, melt the cheese, and then put in the turkey, and then you're good to go, yeah?

Malcolm Collins: I am so lucky to have you as a wife. I am so lucky. This is what I mean, this is every man's fantasy. A diligent pilgrim wife who cooks amazing meals for him.

Simone Collins: My, my pilgrim culture. Your

Malcolm Collins: turkey was so good.

Simone Collins: Oh, thank you. That was a, yeah, that's the Christmas miracle. We did really

Malcolm Collins: good. Like, I'm not lying. You are a normal person.

You'll be like, my turkey was damn good. Yeah, I didn't

Simone Collins: know. Cause yeah, you know, you grow up eating other people's turkey and just assuming that this is what turkey is and then you make it and you realize that it could actually be good. It's exciting. Yeah.

And also

like, we've had some weird turkey [00:46:00] experience.

Like remember when your mom ordered that smoked turkey from Texas and it like came to our house and I'm like,

Malcolm Collins: Oh, and the final thing I'd note here, some of you would be like, Oh, you're being so, bad, like, like bad pronatalists by saying that everyone who has below replacement rate is a cuck. And, and I just end by saying, we need to pressure people.

The cat lady statements that JD Vance is making, the you're a cuck statements when somebody is like, Oh, I, as a parent of two kids, you're like, Oh, you're below replacement rate. Like you do not do this. If you do not make it low status to have lots of kids, it's going to be very hard to fix this problem.

Simone Collins: No, I'm personally of the mind that that's not effective. That shame is never going to work. Both Shane and financial shame, financial incentives, any sort of materialistic stuff like that. Doesn't, that doesn't matter. What does matter is

Malcolm Collins: work for everything. People will do ridiculous things for satisfaction.

It won't [00:47:00] select genetically fit individuals and I don't know if I feel that way.

Simone Collins: I don't, I don't think that people will be driven by shame to have kids and I don't think they should be, but I do. I just, I think it's down to supporting the people who really, really love raising kids and who see it as important.

And you know, who live in communities of people who think it's important. I do think that that's what it comes down to and that. It just, I, I wish anyone who doesn't want to have kids, or a lot of kids, all the best. And they're just not part of what my focus area is going to be. And that's fine.

Malcolm Collins: Okay, so cucks aren't part of your

Simone Collins: focus area?

No, they're not. They're the pronatal number of cucks. You seem to like, I just, It's, it's like um, walking by and like, Oh, I just like, I see this like, Banana slug. In some moss on a hiking trail and I just want to like poke it and look at it and laugh at it. And I'm like, can we just keep walking? Like, I don't care about the banana slug.

Why are you so obsessed with banana slugs? Like what's going on? And I don't get it. And

Malcolm Collins: she's [00:48:00] talking from experience. I see a banana slug and I'm like a little boy. I'm like, Oh, a banana slug. And I'm

Simone Collins: like, can we just keep walking? I came for a walk and this doesn't matter. And we didn't get in the car to go look at banana slugs.

And like, here I am sitting down for this podcast, we're going to talk about nothing but banana slugs. And I'm like, that has nothing to do with anything like pronatalism isn't about people who don't want kids. Pronatalism is about people who want to have children. A lot of

Malcolm Collins: people won't go on the walk if they don't know there could be banana slugs.

You don't want to have kids because they don't think that there's any status to be gained with it. No,

Simone Collins: but you don't want, you don't want those people either. Like, and no, I don't, I honestly don't think, maybe, maybe to start they do and then they get into it. I don't know, like, then they have to ego death after three kids.

They

Malcolm Collins: call us

Simone Collins: breeders. I think we can call them cucks. Fine, you know, do what you need to do, Malcolm, but Oh, the audience has done it. He's

Malcolm Collins: right. The kind and benevolent Simone, [00:49:00] or the malevolent, vindictive Melko?

Simone Collins: First off, just to be clear, in our culture, nobody gets points for being kind, because that's just a term that is used for insipid people who you can't describe using other words that are more interesting.

So, I'm not trying to do this to look good, I just think it's unnecessary, and it, it, it like opens you to liabilities when you don't need to be open to liabilities. Yes. So anyway, I'm going to make you your Turkey taquitos and yeah, I love you.

Malcolm Collins: More cheese than you've been using.

Simone Collins: Okay. Just tons of cheese and even

Malcolm Collins: more than last time, hard cheddar as hard, barely

Simone Collins: any Turkey.

Yeah, I'll go hard on the cheddar and I love you. Love you too.

Malcolm Collins: I'm gonna go get the covers to cover up their Christmas presents from the car. Could you

Simone Collins: please? Yeah. I really, when, when you pick up the kids, I would really appreciate it. Or just do it now. I'm gonna do it

Malcolm Collins: right now.

Simone Collins: Yeah. Okay. Do it.

All right. Bye. Bye. I love you. I love you.

Malcolm Collins: Oh, did you get the the slide thing for the kids from Tiny Tots?

Simone Collins: No, I couldn't. [00:50:00] The you, you didn't approve the in did roof. I

Malcolm Collins: approved it in WhatsApp like three hours ago.

Simone Collins: You said that despite the fact that it was like $330

Malcolm Collins: Yes. Despite the fact that it costs a lot for shipping.

That's obvious. Alright, well I have to

Simone Collins: start dinner and after dinner you can help me with cleanup and then I'll buy it or you can buy it right now yourself. Okay. You can choose. I love you. You're such a good dad.

What are you doing? It's 50 degrees in here inside

Malcolm Collins: inside.

Simone Collins: Yeah. In front house where we're sitting right now.

Malcolm Collins: And you want to turn on, here's the thing, it's on, the

Simone Collins: heat's on, it's just taking a long time because it's really cold because of Russia. Russia sent their air to us and it's their fault.

Malcolm Collins: And just so people know, while we don't do heating in the winter, we do do it to keep it above 50.

So our pipes don't freeze. But it's one of these things where people are like, Oh my God, you, you want, like your life must be so terrible that you live in this state of constant frigid cold. And it's like, [00:51:00] okay. But here's what you haven't experienced. And this is the thing about suffering and challenges.

You don't get to experience the pleasure of hopping in a warm shower. Oh my gosh. Yes. House is freezing. And I will say like, Like if you are deciding between masturbating and jumping in a warm shower when your house is freezing, I jump in the shower five times out of ten. Well, and I take

Simone Collins: that over a cold shower.

Everyone's doing and I think even now the, the support for cold showers is starting to falter and cold plunges maybe. But yeah, I'm all for constant cold permeated by these bursts of warmth instead. Like, I want the inverse. I want constant cold. And then these like, I took an indulgent shower today.

Malcolm Collins: I did my, you're not going to get like a number of times masturbated in a day for me.

It's additional showers. I did not need that. I took today. That is my list [00:52:00] of daily indulgences.

Simone Collins: Yeah, well, I mean, I do indulge with popcorn and I have to show you this because it makes me so happy. This is the, my three days worth of popcorn bag and let's see if we can see this. It says,

Malcolm Collins: yeah, you can see it.

It says clearly this popcorn has been enlarged show texture. You idiot. I mean,

Simone Collins: to whoever like was told by their boss that they had to put this on the bag, you darling. I

Malcolm Collins: think they had it out there in some regulatory agency got mad at them.

Simone Collins: Oh, it was like, this needs to be like, this isn't the size of the topic.

Like, this is like the size of my mouth, this popcorn. Honestly though, I would buy that. I would buy a popcorn that big. It would be so good.

Malcolm Collins: Clearly. It's been enlarged. You buffoonish child.

Simone Collins: Clearly. Clearly. Clearly you. Idiot! Ugh! But no, honestly, honestly, designer, have you met the [00:53:00] average person? Have you met the average human?

Because

Malcolm Collins: Simone, don't even, the average human is a slander against humanity.

Simone Collins: Yeah, honestly. But also like, I have moments where I'm not above it. I could totally see myself looking at this bag and being like, what? I thought I was getting or leaving popcorn. Because what that Trader Joe's synergistically popcorn, which you can't get anymore, legit had giant kernels.

Oh, they

Malcolm Collins: have anyone's got a hookup to synergist popcorn. I would like some of that too. That's yeah.

Simone Collins: Our actually our son Octavian, he's really trying to get on the good list and he keeps trying to find ways to like show how good he is. So he asked me what I wanted for Christmas and I told him I wanted popcorn because it's one of my great loves.

And he remembered. And so he's like, mommy wants popcorn for Christmas. He kept trying to give his ex shotgun to Santa too. He's like, I'm going to give [00:54:00] Santa my ex shotgun. Cause he, he has this like abundance mindset where if I give Santa my gun, Santa will give me more guns and I must make this happen.

I have to manifest.

Malcolm Collins: It's really delightful. It's a great person.

Simone Collins: Yellow shoe dance.

Malcolm Collins: Oh yeah. He saw his brother going to shoot. He did the shoot it.

Speaker 18: whoa. Whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. Whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa.

Malcolm Collins: I love Octavian now. Every time he does, and he does nice things, like, unprovoked all the time, like, really nice, and he normally does nice things, but now, you know, he gets this treat, he'll give it to everyone in the room, and he'll, and then he'll, like, say to himself, I'm gonna be on the nice list for sure.

Simone Collins: He's all about, no, he is, he is very much focused. on getting Max toys and whatever it [00:55:00] takes. Toristan's not yet there. He's not planning for the long term yet. Titan has no idea what's going on. I feel like, I feel like talking to Titan is like talking to someone who's really, really high. Like last night, I was picking her up.

And she's like, you're wearing hair. Oh! Yeah. So she's just super, basically super high all the time. Torsten is, Torsten and Octavian is becoming quite human at this point.

It's

great. I love it. Anyway. All right. You want me to get started? Let's get started.

Speaker 20: It's too, it's too little tiny. Do you think you can get the tape off? Yeah. Yeah, I'll help you. I can get the tape off. Let me [00:56:00] see. Whoa, look at that. Don't, don't, don't! It's not sticking to my hands. Scissors! Scissors, please! Home scissors, please. Yes! Oh, use that one. Oh, I ripped them off! I ripped them off.

Speaker 21: Yes. What? I gotta test them to see if they fit. There's something in. Huh? What? What's this for? What's this for? What's this for? I don't need this. You don't need that.

Speaker 17: Do you like your new shoes?

Speaker 18: Yeah.

Speaker 17: What's special [00:57:00] about them? We don't

Speaker 18: need our boots. We don't need our boots. We don't need our boots. For school. Whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. Whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. Whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. Hey, don't forget this. And this.

Speaker 19: Titan, what's the What are you doing with the iron?