Using QSBS and DAFs to minimize taxes

In this week’s episode of Business Lunch, Roland Frasier and Ryan Deiss continue breaking down the “Bottlenecks” framework—the 11 proven playbooks that billionaires use to grow, protect, and multiply wealth.

From AI-driven acquisitions to tax-optimized exits, this conversation dives into the strategies that separate ordinary entrepreneurs from long-term empire builders. You’ll hear how the world’s wealthiest think about capital allocation, scaling “boring” businesses, and structuring companies for massive, tax-efficient exits.

Whether you’re scaling your first venture or managing a growing portfolio, this episode is a tactical deep dive into how to think—and act—like a billionaire.

Key Takeaways

• Tech Is Not a Moat: With AI making innovation easy to copy, your real advantage is distribution and users.

• The QSBS Advantage: How the Qualified Small Business Stock exemption can eliminate up to $10M (or more) in capital gains per shareholder.

• DAFs & Charitable Strategy: Donor Advised Funds can combine tax savings with long-term impact—if structured correctly.

• Boring Businesses, Billionaire Results: Logistics, energy, and real estate can quietly create generational wealth when value is added and scaled.

• Capital Cycling: Why the world’s best investors (like Blackstone and Berkshire) act like banks—recycling capital and compounding returns.

Episode Highlights

[00:02:00] – Why tech is easy to copy—and why users, not code, create real enterprise value.

[00:10:00] – The billionaire tax play: how QSBS and DAFs legally minimize or eliminate capital gains.

[00:18:00] – When to start thinking about tax strategy (hint: usually not before $10M net worth).

[00:25:00] – Logistics, land, and “boring” businesses that create quiet fortunes.

[00:33:00] – The ESG arbitrage: adding sustainability to raise valuations.

[00:40:00] – Network effects and marketplace rollups: creating compounding flywheels.

[00:55:00] – The rise of “edge retail”: micro-brands, coffee chains, and inversion models that scale fast.

[01:05:00] – Capital cycling and other people’s money (OPM): how billionaires play the funding game.

Memorable Quotes

“If all you are is a feature that someone else could build, you don’t have a business—you have a countdown clock.”

“Boring businesses aren’t boring when they compound quietly into billions.”

“It’s not what you make—it’s what you keep.”

“Billionaires don’t think like operators; they think like capital allocators.”

Mentioned in This Episode

• Qualified Small Business Stock (QSBS) – U.S. tax exemption strategy
• Donor Advised Funds (DAFs) – Philanthropic and tax planning vehicles
• Ross Perot Jr. – Logistics real estate
• Dutch Bros – Scalable retail model example
• Blackstone & Berkshire Hathaway – Capital cycling and compounding models

Listen If You’re

• A founder or investor learning to structure smarter deals.
• A CEO or operator ready to scale beyond execution into capital allocation.
• A strategic thinker who wants to play the long game in business and wealth creation.

Connect

• Hosts: Roland Frasier & Ryan Deiss
• Podcast: Business Lunch with Roland Frasier
• More at: businesslunchpodcast.com

Mentioned in this episode:

Join Roland & Ryan at Get Scalable Live

If you’re a founder, CEO, or operator running a 7- or 8-figure business, Get Scalable Live was built for you. This is not your typical business event. It’s 3 days of hands-on strategy, real-world frameworks, and next-level networking with the smartest operators in the game. 🗓 November 18–20, 2025 📍 San Diego, CA 🎉 Hosted by Ryan Deiss, Roland Frasier, and Richard Lindner 🎧 As a Business Lunch listener, you get 25% off your ticket. Use code LUNCH at checkout.

Get Scalable Live