I think the evidence is pretty overwhelming that they intended to stop. They just didn't have a good plan. This was the Keystone cops. I disagree with you. He said that morning that Pence should not certify. There's a difference between sort of Twitter rhetoric and rally rhetoric. And there is a threshold. It feels like a big leap. You could imagine a scenario where it might have if they had gotten lucky. No, it was not a gigantic movement, but it was a small coup d'état."

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