Using Psychedelic Molecules to Explore Alternate Worlds | Andrew Gallimore, PhD ~ ATTMind 176
Adventures Through The Mind
Real and Not Real Experiences
The speaker discusses the concept of real and not real experiences, emphasizing that all experiences are made from the same stuff and are considered real. They explore the brain as a world builder and the structure of consciousness, as well as the correlation between brain function and perception of reality.
In this episode, we welcome back Dr. Andrew Gallimore to explore the content of his new book 'Reality Switch Technologies: Psychedelics as Tools for the Discovery and Exploration of New Worlds'.
We discuss how the brain builds an experiential world model from patterns of information at the neural level; how all of those worlds are correlated with specific neural patterns; how we can disturb that neural pattern to encounter new worlds; essentially, using psychedelic molecules to explore alternate worlds.
We explore how different classes of psychedelics affects the brain differently and thus switch us to different potential worlds, focusing specifically on the neural and world-switching effects of classical psychedelics, tropane alkaloids, and ketamine.
We also explore why the brain doesn’t care if its models are true, only if their adaptive; how perception of reality flows from conceptual hypothesis down, not from sensory information upwards; the self-model and its disintegration (ego death); we talk about schizophrenia and hearing voices; and about how every experience is “real” but not all experience is accurately mapped to our environment.
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For links to Gallimore's work, full show notes, and a link to watch this episode in video, head to bit.ly/ATTMind176
*** FULL TOPICS BREAKDOWN BELOW**
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Episode Breakdown
- (0:00) Opening and introduction
- (3:10) Guest bio
- (4:38) Patreon Thanks | Support the Show
- (6:14) Interview Begins
- (7:38) All experience is “real”; all experiences are of models made by the brain
- (10:45) DMT worlds are made of the same stuff as our normal waking world
- (13:15) The brain builds a world model from patterns of information at the neural level
- (18:31) The Interface Theory of Perception; not every experience is an adaptive model of the environment
- (22:07) The brain doesn’t care if its models are true, only if it's adaptive.
- (24:26) Perception of reality flows from conceptual hypothesis down, not from sensory information upwards; predictive coding
- (35:40) The world falls out of the brain; how the brain builds the rich complexity of an entire reality
- (40:50) The self-model and its disintegration (ego death)
- (45:08) Schizophrenia and hearing voices
- (52:21) How the brain builds the world space of consensus reality, and how we can explore new world spaces by changing our brains with psychedelics
- (59:59) The C-Switch: how classical psychedelics affect the structure and dynamics of our models for reality
- (1:07:32) How classical psychedelics offer us profound insights and increase creativity through their effect on our brain’s hypotheses about reality
- (1:11:39) Ego death is the result of classical psychedelics producing a loss of distinction between self and other
- (1:14:20) Increased wonder and insights resulting from classical psychedelics destabilizing the brain’s hypotheses
- (1:23:08) Considering the difference between 5-MeO-DMT and DMT in the context of classical psychedelic effect on “the world space”
- (1:27:34) The M-Switch: how tropane alkaloids (aka datura) affect the structure and dynamics of our models for reality through acetylcholine, the M1 receptor, and the management of error signals
- (1:36:38) Tropanes, attention, and coming in and out of reality and hallucinations
- (1:39:30) The N-Switch: how ketamine and PCP affect the structure and dynamics of our models for reality through the NDMA receptor, the push-pull dance between anesthesia and high-psychedelia
- (1:45:23) James musing on his high-dose ketamine experiences
- (1:46:45) Ketamine is an abstract state of consciousness
- (1:50:11) What about Cannabis, MDMA, and Amanita Muscaria?
- (1:54:51) Using psychedelic molecules (and designing new ones) to explore and map alternate worlds
- (2:02:47) Follow-up links and socials
- (2:05:21) Outro
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