Making Trade-offs When There Is No Perfect Choice

In this episode, we sit down with Admiral Mike Rogers, former Director of the National Security Agency (NSA) and Commander of U.S. Cyber Command, for a rare, wide-ranging conversation on how the world is changing, and what actually matters now.

Mike shares what he learned from nearly four decades at the highest levels of military, intelligence, and government leadership, including working under both President Obama and President Trump. But this isn’t just a conversation about power or national security. We also talk about love, relationships, and the personal tradeoffs that come with ambition: why success without meaning is empty, how leaders should think about partnership and family, and what really lasts when titles, money, and influence fade.

This episode is about leadership in every sense of the word: 

- What leadership looks like when the stakes are highest

- How global cyber risk and AI affect everyday people

- Why integrity is the non-negotiable trait of great leaders

- How to communicate effectively with radically different decision-makers

- National security vs. privacy — why it’s not a binary choice

- What the private sector and government misunderstand about each other

- Why love, not power or money, is the ultimate long-term investment

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Timestamps:

1:16 Is the NSA listening to our conversation?

1:38 You need integrity as the foundation

3:38 He became a 4-star military admiral 

6:18 How to make decisions when there's no "right" answer?

7:25 Differences in working with President Obama vs. Trump

14:09 Are politics & business just pre-orchestrated?

17:58 Which is more important? National security or privacy?

20:51 Cybersecurity in the US government

29:58 Admiral Mike talks about love

36:56 Wrap up with Mike Rogers

▫️ Cherie Brooke Luo — 100M+ views demystifying tech, finance & MBAs

▫️ Jean Luo — ex-Goldman Sachs, ex-Snapchat exec, 50+ AI patents, startup investor

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