Speaker 2
i mean, i guess, i don't know. I'm a little more bullish on uninization, even if i undertake sum uinization to say, like some kind of ability for workers to collectively organize themselves into something like that. That is the prerequisite for anything a, you know, maybe obviously, baby doesn't take the exact form, at leastouo a lot of industries where it wouldn't fit, like classical trade unionism. But there has, but there something does have to develop. There does have to be like, some kind of, like organic development of like, working class militancy, a at the sight of work, or or at least organized as proletarians in some way, before you can find some kind of electoral political expression. That, of course, that's also very difficult, i the united states, because, you know, of the nature of the two party system, ye, like, you know, you would have a man in the united states, you know, e the last big thing we had was where one party imploded, was supplanted by another, and then we had a civil war. You know, like that's the only contemplate we have in the united states, a for for class struggle. Wa,
Speaker 3
i guessy. I would say we were, we are cutting like the populace movement, because they took the state houses by guns. Andin
Speaker 1
nike, ties ati. And like, we lway, just feel different about the populace now, like
Speaker 3
yt with theire different group of people. No, ad, they were different back then too. I mean, it's ah, like they were, they were turning reactionary by the beginning of the twentieth century. So, a, but they were supereffective in the nineteenth and i bring tat up because that that was the last time, though, we've seen, we saw it in the civil war. We saw it get crushed in the counter revolution, of the crushing of reconstruction. We saw it kind of begin in the populace and in the socialist movements and tha in the late nineteenth early twentieth century. But those are totally crushed.
Speaker 3
and wwar one. You see it again, kind of emerge, um, in the cpu s a, like the heroic period from 19 26 to 19 36, which is liter i mean, literally about a decade. M, but it's, it's actually, ironically crushed by the popular front in america. M, which liquid t cpu s a, an to the democrats for the rest of history. A, nillakan
Speaker 1
snell, like they, they just got left wing enough for burney, like that's you, like, you want to see, you want to see, like uro communism out uro communism, uro communism. You go to the cpu s a where b sanders was like a fluckan o, there's that great comic about denis casinich being an ultra leftis, that's from a real workers, you know, fluckan world geatorial editorialveryt
Speaker 3
it's funny because because also, right now, i's like there reesurgents up, like, i don't know, the c p s ahas been pushing back on on people, like, pushing braderism on the internet, like, like, people like a peter coffin, and and yetole stories vazar, but and yet, allso, you know, and and pushing anti purialism again, but still kind of maintaining their popular front. So it's, it's a little bit wild where we are now. I mean, i also can't imagine tha strait, like the strategy gort is proposing actually working, even in europe. That state, that anemic state, that that is, you know, barely holding on ims, trying to navigate between reactionary nationalnists and maintaining the urizone, that state is going to be a transitionary form for even
Speaker 1
b like the meaning of the european union is missing from this. Like the european union is this interesting kind of er, you know, kind of like a super it's not quite a super state, but economically speaking, it can outflank all the particular national governments.